latest from warmwell.com on bird flu.

Originally from: Mary Critchley
                        
April 12 2006 ~ "DEFRA is like a dead swan – Discuss"

Magnus Linklater in The Times today asks: "Why are we still shuttling dead birds across the country to the single laboratory capable of testing them, when there is a sophisticated and foolproof form of local testing that could diagnose the virus in under six hours? "
".... this vital work should be removed from under the dead hand of Defra and handed to an independent advisory body that could draw together the necessary scientific expertise from all sources and then come up with objective advice, free of government constraints. Perhaps the Royal Societies, north and south of the border, with their long traditions of independence, could act as the umbrella body. Something needs to be done if we are not to stumble into another pandemic disaster. Next time we may be dealing with more than just a dead swan." Read in full

April 12 2006 ~ "people with little first-hand knowledge of the one science they should be on top of: virology."

Magnus Linklater points out clearly what the basic problem is
"...What is disturbing about so many of the statements coming out of Defra – about the need to bring free-range flocks indoors, to end organic farming, to "monitor" but never to introduce vaccination – is that they are made by people with little first-hand knowledge of the one science they should be on top of: virology. There is brilliant work being done in research centres in Britain on zoonotic diseases and the vaccines needed to control them, but it rarely seems to filter upwards to Defra..." More
Mr Linklater draws attention to the Rapid diagnostic machines(see warmwell page) and their ilk – fully functioning since the beginning of the Foot and Mouth crisis – but ignored, at terrible cost, by the UK.

April 12 2006 ~ "Every minister and every official, taking their cue from government scientists, dutifully repeats......"

Times article ".... Every minister and every official, taking their cue from government scientists, dutifully repeats that vaccines would only "mask" the disease rather than control it. Ben Bradshaw, the Defra Minister, claims that "overwhelming scientific advice" shows that the disadvantages of their use greatly outweigh the advantages. Clearly he has not read the detailed scientific papers on the Hong Kong and Vietnam outbreaks, where the opposite has been proved: that vaccination can control and eliminate avian flu and that tests can establish whether it is still present or hidden. ..." (Scientific peer reviewed papers may be viewed on warmwell's H5N1 page.)

April 12 2006 ~ "Officials have since attempted to explain the mistake by pointing out that the bird's head was missing.."

and it was badly decomposed. But they were criticised last night for taking so long to make a positive identification. A spokesman for the RSPB said it was important to get the species right first time. "We hope the authorities will learn from this mistake," he said...." Telegraph (See also cartoon from Germany..showing German swans who like to have sole use of the beach...)

April 12 2006 ~ The New Scientist suggests UK bird tests were flawed – but DEFRA says the most up-to-date testing technologies for avian flu viruses are being used.

DEFRA has said that tests on wild birds are negative for bird flu, suggesting that H5N1 is not widespread in the country. However, according to Reuters:
"An investigation by New Scientist suggests that all those tests were flawed, meaning no one really knows just how widespread infection among British wild birds might be" ..... DEFRA defended its methods, saying the most up-to-date testing technologies for avian flu viruses are being used
... "
It would be interesting to know what these "most up-to-date testing technologies" are when it took a week to determine that the Callerdyke swan was infected. As Dr Dr James Irvine asks below:"What has happened to the recommended rapid task force that would go to an area where disease is suspected, armed with portable RealTime-PCR equipment that could make a reliable diagnosis, including strain type, within 4 hours maximum? " £400,000 for state -of- the-art rapid diagnostic on-site tests could make Scotland the best equipped country in Europe. As Dr Breeze says "There are hundreds of scientists and technicians in Scotland today who know how to do PCR tests (a standard lab tool) and who could learn the works of the RAPID in an afternoon."

(Thank goodness for Magnus Linklater. Warmwell is still updating every day. Best wishes from Mary)
                        

Originally from: coleen
                        

Hi

Two cases (so they tell us) so far, and both times wrong information
given. The Quarantine Centre in Essex (samples from Finches and Parrots
muddled up) when asked – how this could happen Margaret Beckett had NO
answer. Heavens, what would happen if they were swamped with tests? Then
the Swan who changed species and was probably washed ashore from another
Country – so they would have us believe. Despite the fact that these birds
over-Winter here in their thousands.

How does this scenario equate with a BBC Radio 4 programme saying that we
here in the UK have the best means available for testing, treating and
acting if and when Bird Flu strikes here in the UK. Apparently other
Countries are out of their depth when it comes to knowing how to handle
bird flu! Just a minute though... I was forgetting fmd, and all those
millions of healthy animals we killed! We are NO strangers to filling the
ground with dead healthy animals are we? Perhaps this is what they are
referring to!

I live on the Solway coast. Every year thousands and thousands of wild
birds come to these parts to over-Winter. If bird flu is out there in the
wild bird population – then there must be hundreds and hundreds of birds
who have died from it! We cannot stop them coming nor returning back home
each year. So long as people are made aware to stay away from any dead
bird and we VACCINATE our chickens, (let's please not go down another fmd
road), we will be doing all that is scientifically possible to protect us
and the poultry industry. Surely, you cannot kill your way out of a
'bird flu' epidemic. This is not like the poor cow, sheep or pig who had
NO escape. Perhaps someone should tell DEFRA that birds can fly away...

Also have my eyesight and hearing failed me? Has anyone else heard any
Vets calling out for Vaccination...or are they also listening to the so
called 'Scientist's' and going along with the 'Party Line' again?

Nice new shiny 4 wheel drive vehicles soon to be parked outside surgeries
again!

Whatever leads me to think that?

Coleen

----- Original Message -----
From: "maryatwarmwell" <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:53 AM
Subject: [farmtalking] latest from warmwell.com on bird flu.

April 12 2006 ~ "DEFRA is like a dead swan – Discuss"

Magnus Linklater in The Times today asks: "Why are we still shuttling
dead
birds across the country to the single laboratory capable of testing
them,
when there is a sophisticated and foolproof form of local testing that
could
diagnose the virus in under six hours? "
".... this vital work should be removed from under the dead hand of Defra
and handed to an independent advisory body that could draw together the
necessary scientific expertise from all sources and then come up with
objective advice, free of government constraints. Perhaps the Royal
Societies, north and south of the border, with their long traditions of
independence, could act as the umbrella body. Something needs to be done
if
we are not to stumble into another pandemic disaster. Next time we may be
dealing with more than just a dead swan." Read in full

April 12 2006 ~ "people with little first-hand knowledge of the one
science
they should be on top of: virology."

Magnus Linklater points out clearly what the basic problem is
"...What is disturbing about so many of the statements coming out of
Defra –
about the need to bring free-range flocks indoors, to end organic
farming,
to "monitor" but never to introduce vaccination – is that they are made
by
people with little first-hand knowledge of the one science they should be
on
top of: virology. There is brilliant work being done in research centres
in
Britain on zoonotic diseases and the vaccines needed to control them, but
it
rarely seems to filter upwards to Defra..." More
Mr Linklater draws attention to the Rapid diagnostic machines(see
warmwell
page) and their ilk – fully functioning since the beginning of the Foot
and
Mouth crisis – but ignored, at terrible cost, by the UK.

April 12 2006 ~ "Every minister and every official, taking their cue from
government scientists, dutifully repeats......"

Times article ".... Every minister and every official, taking their cue
from
government scientists, dutifully repeats that vaccines would only "mask"
the
disease rather than control it. Ben Bradshaw, the Defra Minister, claims
that "overwhelming scientific advice" shows that the disadvantages of
their
use greatly outweigh the advantages. Clearly he has not read the detailed
scientific papers on the Hong Kong and Vietnam outbreaks, where the
opposite
has been proved: that vaccination can control and eliminate avian flu and
that tests can establish whether it is still present or hidden. ..."
(Scientific peer reviewed papers may be viewed on warmwell's H5N1 page.)

April 12 2006 ~ "Officials have since attempted to explain the mistake by
pointing out that the bird's head was missing.."

and it was badly decomposed. But they were criticised last night for
taking
so long to make a positive identification. A spokesman for the RSPB said
it
was important to get the species right first time. "We hope the
authorities
will learn from this mistake," he said...." Telegraph (See also cartoon
from
Germany..showing German swans who like to have sole use of the beach...)

April 12 2006 ~ The New Scientist suggests UK bird tests were flawed –
but
DEFRA says the most up-to-date testing technologies for avian flu viruses
are being used.

DEFRA has said that tests on wild birds are negative for bird flu,
suggesting that H5N1 is not widespread in the country. However, according
to
Reuters:
"An investigation by New Scientist suggests that all those tests were
flawed, meaning no one really knows just how widespread infection among
British wild birds might be" ..... DEFRA defended its methods, saying the
most up-to-date testing technologies for avian flu viruses are being used
... "
It would be interesting to know what these "most up-to-date testing
technologies" are when it took a week to determine that the Callerdyke
swan
was infected. As Dr Dr James Irvine asks below:"What has happened to the
recommended rapid task force that would go to an area where disease is
suspected, armed with portable RealTime-PCR equipment that could make a
reliable diagnosis, including strain type, within 4 hours maximum? "
£400,000 for state -of- the-art rapid diagnostic on-site tests could make
Scotland the best equipped country in Europe. As Dr Breeze says "There
are
hundreds of scientists and technicians in Scotland today who know how to
do
PCR tests (a standard lab tool) and who could learn the works of the
RAPID
in an afternoon."

(Thank goodness for Magnus Linklater. Warmwell is still updating every
day.
Best wishes from Mary)

--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking

To leave the group, email: ...

Report abuse
http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D774210&mid%3D10645

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/308 – Release Date: 11/04/2006

—
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/311 – Release Date: 13/04/2006
                        

Originally from: coleen
                        
Hi

Two cases (so they tell us) so far, and both times wrong information given. The Quarantine Centre in Essex (samples from Finches and Parrots muddled up) when asked – how this could happen Margaret Beckett had NO answer. Heavens, what would happen if they were swamped with tests? Then the Swan who changed species and was probably washed ashore from another Country – so they would have us believe. Despite the fact that these birds over-Winter here in their thousands.

How does this scenario equate with a BBC Radio 4 programme saying that we here in the UK have the best means available for testing, treating and acting if and when Bird Flu strikes here in the UK. Apparently other Countries are out of their depth when it comes to knowing how to handle bird flu! Just a minute though... I was forgetting fmd, and all those millions of healthy animals we killed! We are NO strangers to filling the ground with dead healthy animals are we? Perhaps this is what they are referring to!

I live on the Solway coast. Every year thousands and thousands of wild birds come to these parts to over-Winter. If bird flu is out there in the wild bird population – then there must be hundreds and hundreds of birds who have died from it! We cannot stop them coming nor returning back home each year. So long as people are made aware to stay away from any dead bird and we VACCINATE our chickens, (let's please not go down another fmd road), we will be doing all that is scientifically possible to protect us and the poultry industry. Surely, you cannot kill your way out of a 'bird flu' epidemic. This is not like the poor cow, sheep or pig who had NO escape. Perhaps someone should tell DEFRA that birds can fly away...

Also have my eyesight and hearing failed me? Has anyone else heard any Vets calling out for Vaccination...or are they also listening to the so called 'Scientist's' and going along with the 'Party Line' again?

Nice new shiny 4 wheel drive vehicles soon to be parked outside surgeries again!

Whatever leads me to think that?

Coleen