British Cattle Movement - CTS On-Line
Originally from: Farmtalking
Hi everyone!
The British Cattle Movement 'thread' is interesting and I note that much of the frustration this scheme causes is exposed here! Francis is not the only one to have had dead stock brought to life, which is no doubt preferable to live ones slaughtered.
However, it may not be apparent to some that the ability to join this group, post messages and send e-mails to others with ease is no indication that people are completely 'computer savvy' and over the past few years this has become abundantly evident to me!
Although more and more people, including farmers, are getting on-line with their own computer it does take time to learn how to use it!
Before anyone screams at me...'but that there are computer courses available to those who want to learn', to take a course and practice at home takes time – and time is something that many farmers don't have to spare!
When it has been drummed into them how important these records are, they feel far more comfortable writing them down than sending them on-line.
So...once again I ask for a little 'tolerance and understanding' on this message board, please!
For anyone who's curious, interested or maybe wants to learn the CTS (Cattle Tracing Scheme) can be found here – http://www.bcms.gov.uk/ and for those in Scotland you might like to take a look here – http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Agriculture/Online-Services/18943/15868
It seems even some Govt departments are trying as I note the latter have been awarded the Crystal Mark by the 'Plain English Campaign'!
Originally from: mark purdey
Exactly folks,
I have never trusted emails and cyberspace to any degree, particularly when one is dealing with important communications which can lead to prosecution if you fail to deliver.
I tend to write all of my emails off line , and then do a 'hit and run' send of mailbox 'on line' , withdrawing as rapidly as possible.
Whenever I go 'on line' long term, all manner of problems seem to start happening. Only yesterday, I lost my entire incoming mail section from my email filing cabinent after going on line for 15minutes. Usually the problems are much more selective than that. So this is why i am reluctant to fill out any forms in 'on line' mode, regardless of the security measures in place.
the perpetuators of this problem became evident when I installed a rather basic firewall system on my computer. Whilst it failed to stop the more sophisticated hackers ( those who were operating on behalf of government or corporations ), the firewall did at least tell me who they were, as well as providing me with their email contact addresses and computer numbers. It transpired that these bodies were invariably linked to the PR agencies who work for the bio-pharmaceutical industries, numerous government agencies ( mainly US ), the military, scientific institutions , detective agencies who work for the corporates, and even the Chinese academy of sciences who were visiting my computer on a weekly basis !!!
In light of the reseach data that i used to naively store on my 'working' computer , my data and communications were obviously their reasons for paying me a visit !! So this is why I do not like going on line for too long. The firewall alarm goes off almost immediately ( and continually ) when i go on line !!! I obviously have to switch it off for a peaceful life.
To add to list of BCMS stupidities, the communication that we recieved from them yesterday was attempting to console us – presumably in an attempt to get us to accept the punishment. They said that we were at perfect liberty to breed from this animal ( the one they have refused a passport ), and then register its calves in the normal way. They have obviously not checked up their records to see that they have debarred the passport for a bull calf !!! But maybe they are so locked into the vacuum of cyberspace, political correctness and sexual equality et al, that they have become divorced from the real world of nature and think that bulls can concieve and raise calves !!
Best,
mark
Originally from: coleen
Hi Mark
There was a article in a computer magazie warning against having your 'preview' browser open when viewing emails. This can actually alert people to the fact that your email address is valid, that you have read the email...and so they flood you with even more. On a more serious note it of course has far wider and serous implications. This is how we have always downloaded and read our emails.
So although the Internet is wonderful it is NOT by any means safe nor secure.
Cheers
Coleen
Originally from: gee
Does the sand get in your eyes?
Originally from: Joyce
Last year we paid out telephone bill on line and the money left our account, also checked online... in Feb our phone was cut off suddenly one morning, not unusual for here! but on going to a box [3 miles away] and phoning BT we were told the bill had not been paid...
It took all day, a trip to the bank, 15 miles away, a call from the bank to BT and several more calls, getting more irate by the hour, from various boxes, to get our phone line re-instated.
NEVER AGAIN!
Cheque by mail is the order of the day now.
Apart from that I wouldn't willingly give any government quango or department my e-mail address!
At least the paper stuff makes good shredded bedding!
Joyce
—No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.17 – Release Date: 19/04/2005
Originally from: Pat Gardiner
That all sounds so far-fetched, does it not? Mark must be exaggerating.
This is Britain. We don't do things like that.
I'm afraid we do. Maff-Defra has legal rights to intercept communications and mail, to bug and probably to burgle. They are way beyond the control of our pathetic parliament or any of our politicians of all parties. Our political establishment are afraid of their own civil servants.
I too had a number of incidents. I know with absolute certainty that there was an attempt by one of Scudamore's assistants to plant a Trojan on my machine. The attempt was spotted, blocked and the police called. They attended, agreed that an attempt had been made and told me that since it was made from a home machine Crown Immunity could not be invoked. As expected the promised investigation never materialised. Nothing more was heard. As always with me, all the documentary evidence is quite separate from any computer, off the premises and abroad. The EU investigators were informed.
That man occupies a very senior position to this day looking after animal and consequently human health. It makes me shiver.
There was another attempt from Maff-Scotland.
The number of times, we have officials attempting to surreptitiously enter our land... the fabricated excuses to visit...the obvious harassment.
They don't like being caught out and react viciously and beyond the law.
The only way we could protect ourselves was to get rid of all our farm livestock and deregister the smallholding. They now have no reason to be here...
...and I have no reason not to redouble my efforts to get them before a Criminal Court.
Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com
Originally from: gee
I really cannot let this pass.
If you wish to pursue an argument with BCMS fine, but please remember that other peoples income businesses depend on BCMS functioning in a satisfactory manner, one of these criteria is that the data held is up to date and current.
It is all to easy to blame BCMS for all the faults that no doubt exist within the system.
Barely readable forms submitted to BCMS by farmers can cause nothing but problems.
Pursue your cause by all means, but do not drag everyone else down in the meantime.
Remember that the time spent dealing with your grievance is time that is not being spent sorting other peoples problems.
Gee
Originally from: Farmtalking
Author wrote:
I really cannot let this pass.
Well... neither can I!
If you wish to pursue an argument with BCMS fine, but please remember that other peoples income businesses depend on BCMS functioning in a satisfactory manner, one of these criteria is that the data held is up to date and current.
There can be no doubt that Mark is correct to persue the matter with BCMS, not only in his own interest but to assist in ensuring the records are as accurate as possible.
It is all to easy to blame BCMS for all the faults that no doubt exist within the system.
Yes, well I'm afraid they do and have done for some time. I don't doubt that the BCMS staff are trying to sort out the problems in the system but it's obviously taking time.
Would that be because the powers that be insisted the program be of their own making? One has to wonder why existing and proven programs that work well, were not adopted. I'm told thatthe one used in Northern Ireland is a good example.
Barely readable forms submitted to BCMS by farmers can cause nothing but problems.
Quite, but that is always a poosibilty with hand-written documents and applies as much to the DVLC as to anything else of a similar nature.
Pursue your cause by all means, but do not drag everyone else down in the meantime. Remember that the time spent dealing with your grievance is time that is not being spent sorting other peoples problems.
Err...quite who is being 'dragged down' here, have I missed something? Surely, Mark's problems as just as important as anyone else's and all deserve careful attention and correction.
There can be no doubt that to keep Cattle Tracing Records is a good idea but we have to accept that they are never likely to be 100% complete or accurate. That's nobody's 'fault' other than that all involved are simply human beings!
Originally from: mark purdey
But who created this grievance in the first instance ????
Did I initiate this problem?. It is the fastidiousness of BCMS splitting hairs over the late arrival (by just one day ) of one calf passport application. The late arrival was caused by my application being in the post for five days. One of the BCMS ladies had actually volunteered this information to me – so she had clearly witnessed this for herself.
So BCMS have all the necessary information ( dam details, date of birth, herd numbers, etc , etc ) to register my calf. So why don't they just do it for god's sake ? then nobody else will be dragged down into any mess ? It will become a mess of their own making, not mine
My complaints are that BCMS are ;
1. Not being reasonmable over this ; in that the post was to blame for the late arrival and not my own actions.
2. Had I been in the wrong, then i do not agree with the punishment that compels the removal of a healthy calf from the foodchain. Why should the world's food supply suffer for a mere petty bureaucratic error. For those that live in a third world country with food shortages or for those that lived during the second world war with food rationing etc, the wasteful attitude of our modern day western societies towards food and resources is utterly disgraceful. The penalty for late registration should be a straight fine, perhaps increasing for each day or week late or whatever.
If BCMS do not back down by the end of this week, then I will seek leave for a high court judicial review to challenge the legality of this tip of the iceburg affair where governments are demanding the removal of healthy animals from the foodchain for no valid health risk reason. The animal diseases act does not cover the BCMS in their actions which are blocking the sale of healthy meat into the foodchain when the animal was not affected with any contagious disease during its lifetime.
Best,
mark
Originally from: Hilary Peters
I hate to say this but I know from sad experience that Pat and Mark are right.
I too had an attempt to infect my emails during Foot and Mouth.
I am and have always been, conspicuously a-political.
Hilary
Originally from: gee
Farmers required for telephone trial for livestock recording
Here is an opportunity to cut down on your paperwork! 100 cattle keepers are required for a trial on a first come first served basis, which will enable all cattle births, deaths and movements to be recorded over the phone. This system means no paperwork is required. All producers need is the animals details and a BCMS CTS on-line password and ID. The rest of the work will be done by a fully trained call centre operator. For further information about this trial contact Kerry 09056 696699 .... Depending on the results of the trial of 100 farmers there will be a large countrywide roll out of this system, which will mean more accurate record keeping and no paperwork for all cattle births, movements and deaths as it will be done over the phone
Taken from our local NFU newsletter.
Surely this should be the answer to your problems.
Don't delay apply today.
Gee
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