Jiglu: Farmtalking: Discussion: RE: Relaunch of Defra''s BSE

Originally from: frances fish

Truth is, we are no nearer knowing what causes BSE than we ever were. Yet we are given advice on how to avoid contracting CJD (slaughter all cattle over 30 months and don't let them be eaten). No proved link has been established between eating such meat and subsequently developing CJD(vegetarians have died from CJD). What is magical about 30 months ? Nothing, as far as I can see. We do know that younger animals can get BSE. Does any of it make any sense? All other non-prion theories are ridiculed, discounted, funding is refused or withdrawn. Are they afraid that the true cause of some of these or all, TSE's will come out ? Radiation and pollution of all kinds spring into mind. I continue to read all that I can on the subject from whatever source and to make up my own mind as to whether it makes any sense or not. They could start with scrapie, its been around for hundreds of years. It runs at less than 1% of the sheep population but it has hot-spots. One of these is undoubtedly Shetland and yet they have had a scrapie testing scheme going up there for many years with little obvious change in its incidence as far as I can see .Why is that, I wonder? What is different about Shetland ? What do they have that others haven't ? Or, what do others have that they do not ? It is a more or less closed sheep community, being an island and a fair distance from the mainland .They appear to have had a massive slaughter of lambs up there recently, why ?Interesting ! Frances
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Originally from: Joyce

Do you have more info on this Frances?
Joyce

Originally from: Joyce

Thanks Frances..... answers.... well of course they are not going to eliminate scrapie when the causes are still around.... perhaps Mark should pay [another?] visit!!!
I'm fine thanks, walking the moors again, and yes we have had Ivan's tail swishing over here.
Joyce

Originally from: frances fish

Hi Joyce, How are you ? Is it windy up there ? It is here. Yes, do have further info, though not much. More than 1/5th of Shetlands lamb crop is expected to be slaughtered by October. 20,000 of the 100,000 lambs are expected to be put through the NSP and about 1 million paid to farmers who will receive about twice the amount they usually get for a lamb . I think they pay 50 or 60 for a lamb so the "usual" price must be about 25 pounds. Having to write that longhand as pound sign on keyboard decided to die ! Thing is, did they test them first, or are they harvesting sheep brains ? Another curious thing. Someone we know, who works for Seerad spent 2 weeks up in Shetland in the summer. Her job is blood testing for TB scrapie etc. Why so many, why ? What are they up to ?This snippet appeared in the Scottish Farmer 4th Sept in an article on the rethink of the NSP.Can't find out any more yet but will keep on looking. Thing is, they have had a scrapie scheme going in Shetland for much longer than the NSP and they do not seem to have eliminated scrapie, again, why not ? Questions, questions, so many questions, but answers there are none !!! Frances

========================================
Message date : Sep 28 2004, 11:27 AM
From: ...

Originally from : "joyce"
To : ...
Copy to :
Subject : Re: [farmtalking] RE: Relaunch of Defra's BSE
Do you have more info on this Frances?
Joyce

.They appear to have had a massive slaughter of lambs up there recently, why ?Interesting !
Frances

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Originally from: mona parr

Link to news release from SEERAD site mentions Shetland

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2004/04/5343

Originally from: mark purdey

Hi folks,

I have always ascribed the age old higher scrapie rate in the sheep flocks kept on Shetland ( and other parts of Central scotland ) to the natural radioactive metals in the igneous granitic rock there – the levels of barium ( the daughter product resulting from uranium decay ) are essentially the most relevant. Once they penetrate into the brain, these metal micro-crystals seed the radioactive metal-protein crystals that grow into the fibril features which characterise the 'sound sensitive' TSE diseased brain ( NB Barium is the metal added to sound proof boarding for absorbing the acoustic energy ).

Basically, if you or your animals thrive off ecosystems which carry the higher levels of natural radioactive metals (NORM) ( as in Iceland where NORM is high downwind of some of the volcanoes ), then you have to be careful that you
are nourished with ample antioxidant co factors such as copper, selenium / vitamin E , zinc, vitamin C which arrests the free radical mediated chain reactions which are initiated by the radioactive decay around the crystals in the contaminated brain. In this respect, these antioxidants will therefore act as a preventative against diseases like TSEs, explaining why the sheep farmers in Iceland fail to contract CJD because they consume ample seafood which contains all of these antioxidants, whereas their scrapie riddled sheep remain confined to the copper / selenium / zinc deficient pastures and therefore succumb to the negative effects of the radioactive metals that are endemic in their local environs.

Whenever the Americans have problems with TSE outbreaks in their domesticated wildlife held in their captive facilities, they adopt a policy of bulldozing the top six inches of soil from the pens and disposing of it – exactly the same strategy that is applied to land that has become contaminated by radioactive metals. They know the true cause of these diseases out there , but just keep it hush for fear of disturbing the public – and, of course, to dodge any compensation claims that may result from any claims against the leaks from their nuclear weapon sites and incineration of their low level waste ordnance.!

We are equally as gullible over here, and just believe the most politically convenient scapegoat line that the government tells us. Imagine if the truth were to get out about mad cow !!!

Best,

Mark

Originally from: hilary strong

Excuse my ignorance but does anyone know if Shetland always been a hotspot for Scrapie or is it only since they started building Petrochemical refineries on Shetland ? Do they also have cases of BSE and VCJD in Shetland or are the TSEs limited to Scrapie ?

Regards
Hilary

Originally from: mark purdey

Hi Hilary,

There was a case of vCJD in a coastguard near Kirkwall, on Orkney.

Once again, oil refineries spew out NORM – radium, barium, strontium 89, etc
– so the increase in the oil industry would exacerbate the underlying issue of NORM in the granitic soils. I found this issue of expansion in the oil/gas well industry in alberta / saskatechewan too, when i was researching the outbreaks of TSE in all species along the borders of those two states. But I think the problem was stemming from the intensive testing and incineration of military ordnance which was unique ( in respect of Canada ) to that region.

There has been BSE in both Orkney and Shetland too, and it may be that a different more aggressive species of radioactive metal – like strontium 90 from Chernobyl – is the cause of the modern strain more aggressive TSE – vCJD / BSE. The high levels of natural barium in the soils of the islands would certainly absorb the ionising radiation , more so than environments that are low in barium.

Best,

Mark

Originally from: Ron

Mark,

How does this affect the West Country, Cornwall in particular, as it has a large amount of granite? If I remember rightly isn't China Clay part of decayed granite. Of course there is also a large amount of copper there as well.

Radon gas is a problem too in Cornwall.

Ron.

----- Original Message -----
From: ...
Originally from: <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] RE: Relaunch of Defra's BSE
Hi folks,
I have always ascribed the age old higher scrapie rate in the sheep flocks kept on Shetland ( and other parts of Central scotland ) to the natural radioactive metals in the igneous granitic rock there – the levels of barium (
the daughter product resulting from uranium decay ) are essentially the most
relevant. Once they penetrate into the brain, these metal micro-crystals seed
the radioactive metal-protein crystals that grow into the fibril features which characterise the 'sound sensitive' TSE diseased brain ( NB Barium is the
metal added to sound proof boarding for absorbing the acoustic energy ).
Basically, if you or your animals thrive off ecosystems which carry the higher levels of natural radioactive metals (NORM) ( as in Iceland where NORM is
high downwind of some of the volcanoes ), then you have to be careful that you
are nourished with ample antioxidant co factors such as copper, selenium / vitamin E , zinc, vitamin C which arrests the free radical mediated chain reactions which are initiated by the radioactive decay around the crystals in
the contaminated brain. In this respect, these antioxidants will therefore act
as a preventative against diseases like TSEs, explaining why the sheep farmers in Iceland fail to contract CJD because they consume ample seafood which
contains all of these antioxidants, whereas their scrapie riddled sheep remain
confined to the copper / selenium / zinc deficient pastures and therefore succumb to the negative effects of the radioactive metals that are endemic in
their local environs.
Whenever the Americans have problems with TSE outbreaks in their domesticated wildlife held in their captive facilities, they adopt a policy of
bulldozing the top six inches of soil from the pens and disposing of it – exactly the
same strategy that is applied to land that has become contaminated by radioactive metals. They know the true cause of these diseases out there , but just
keep it hush for fear of disturbing the public – and, of course, to dodge any compensation claims that may result from any claims against the leaks from
their nuclear weapon sites and incineration of their low level waste ordnance.!
We are equally as gullible over here, and just believe the most politically convenient scapegoat line that the government tells us. Imagine if the truth
were to get out about mad cow !!!
Best,
Mark
—If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking
To leave the group, email: ...

Originally from: mark purdey

Dear Ron,

Good questions. It is the particular type of igneous rock ( granites, etc ) which determines how much radiation absorbing metal ( eg uranium, barium, strontium, etc ) is going to be present. There are quite a few different types of granite which are very varied in respect of their capacity to absorb radioactivity.

In orkney / shetland it is the Old Red Sandstone, as well as the granites, that are very high in the uranium / barium deposits – so much so that they wanted to mine the uranium deposits there during the Thatcher era , much to the horror of the local islanders. Other human and eco-factors are also very relevant in determining how much uranium / barium is released / leached into the open environment ( eg; into the topsoil, atmosphere, vegetation / food crops etc). It could remain locked up in the bedrock.

I understand that there is a moderate amount of scrapie on Dartmoor ( the main granitic area of the SW ) , with plenty of BSE in the areas that were populated by bovines. South Devon was particularly heavily affected with BSE, particularly in the areas where the 'bluestone' surfaces in the top soil – bluestone has a well renowned ability to absorb ionising radiation, and MAFF were conducting many soil tests down there after the Chernobyl accident.

There is a linear clustering of scrapie that runs along the back of the Brendon hills ( starts near to my farm ) and then Exmoor to the coast at Woolacombe. It's ordovician bedrock, with high levels of barium and manganese. The manganese used to be mined in places. Copper / selenium are low.

It is really interesting what you say about china clay. It would be interesting to follow that up and analyse the stuff, since I know that potters and ceramic workers ( glass workers too ) get high rates of both CJD and Parkinson' s, but I had always ascribed that to the use of barium, strontium and/or manganese in the glazes – eg; not due to the clays.

The Lizard peninsula is wholly igneous rock – serpentine. This would make an interesting study of the types of metals in the serpentine rock and the possible rates of scrapie in the local sheep flocks, if any. Well, a comparative study needs to be conducted in the sheep flocks that are grazed over the pockets of igneous and non igneous rocks all over the UK.

Genetics certainly has a major role in scrapie too, perhaps by increasing susceptibility of the animal to an increased uptake of these rogue metals or to an inadequate ability of the animal to neutralise the effects of the radicals
that the rogue radioactive metals generate.

In fact so much 'in depth' research needs to be done to follow up on the cursory studies that I have managed to do, but of course the major stumbling block here falls back on the issue of funding. Since government and corporations only fund projects that support their particular commercial and political agendas, its become impossible for the likes of people like me to take this research forward. Its an appalling situation which is getting progressively worse as the years go by. Fifteen years ago , there were actually some good people working within MAFF, but over recent years these people seem to have somehow fallen by the wayside, only to be replaced by a bunch of totally corrupt, dumb, deceitful double agents who are really spinning for the best interests of the corporations and hardly doing their job as CIVIL SERVANTS – we seem to have forgotten the meaning of this word..

Best,

Mark

Originally from: frances fish

Hi Mona, To reply to your posting. Yes, Shetland is mentioned in conjunction with the VOLUNTARY scrapie scheme which means that parents, i.e. ewes and rams would also have been for the chop, but only lambs and 20% of the total lamb crop at that were due to be slaughtered. So, sorry, that doesn't seem to be the answer. Frances

Originally from: Ron

Dear Mark,

I've looked it up and consulted a geologist friend. China Clay = Kaolin = a porcelain clay derived principally from the decomposition of Feldspar = a name found abundantly in igneous rocks,varying in colour, crystalline form and chemical composition, but chiefly silicates of alumina combined with some other mineral. But in the end Feldspar derives from decomposing Granite, leaving quartz and mica and other 'bits and pieces', 'The Cornish Alps'. Feldspar appears in various places, including such as Skiddaw.

So I suppose low levels of radio-activity could be carried through, I'm not taking any more Kaolin indigestion remedies or poultice.:-)

Regards, Ron.

----- Original Message -----
From: ...
Originally from: <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] RE: Relaunch of Defra's BSE
Dear Ron,
Good questions. It is the particular type of igneous rock ( granites, etc ) which determines how much radiation absorbing metal ( eg uranium, barium, strontium, etc ) is going to be present. There are quite a few different types
of granite which are very varied in respect of their capacity to absorb radioactivity.
In orkney / shetland it is the Old Red Sandstone, as well as the granites, that are very high in the uranium / barium deposits – so much so that they wanted to mine the uranium deposits there during the Thatcher era , much to the
horror of the local islanders. Other human and eco-factors are also very relevant in determining how much uranium / barium is released / leached into the
open environment ( eg; into the topsoil, atmosphere, vegetation / food crops etc). It could remain locked up in the bedrock.
I understand that there is a moderate amount of scrapie on Dartmoor ( the main granitic area of the SW ) , with plenty of BSE in the areas that were populated by bovines. South Devon was particularly heavily affected with BSE,
particularly in the areas where the 'bluestone' surfaces in the top soil – bluestone has a well renowned ability to absorb ionising radiation, and MAFF were
conducting many soil tests down there after the Chernobyl accident.
There is a linear clustering of scrapie that runs along the back of the Brendon hills ( starts near to my farm ) and then Exmoor to the coast at Woolacombe. It's ordovician bedrock, with high levels of barium and manganese. The
manganese used to be mined in places. Copper / selenium are low.
It is really interesting what you say about china clay. It would be interesting to follow that up and analyse the stuff, since I know that potters and
ceramic workers ( glass workers too ) get high rates of both CJD and Parkinson'
s, but I had always ascribed that to the use of barium, strontium and/or manganese in the glazes – eg; not due to the clays.
The Lizard peninsula is wholly igneous rock – serpentine. This would make an
interesting study of the types of metals in the serpentine rock and the possible rates of scrapie in the local sheep flocks, if any. Well, a comparative
study needs to be conducted in the sheep flocks that are grazed over the pockets of igneous and non igneous rocks all over the UK.
Genetics certainly has a major role in scrapie too, perhaps by increasing susceptibility of the animal to an increased uptake of these rogue metals or to
an inadequate ability of the animal to neutralise the effects of the radicals
that the rogue radioactive metals generate.
In fact so much 'in depth' research needs to be done to follow up on the cursory studies that I have managed to do, but of course the major stumbling
block here falls back on the issue of funding. Since government and corporations
only fund projects that support their particular commercial and political agendas, its become impossible for the likes of people like me to take this research forward. Its an appalling situation which is getting progressively worse as the years go by. Fifteen years ago , there were actually some good people working within MAFF, but over recent years these people seem to have somehow fallen by the wayside, only to be replaced by a bunch of totally corrupt,
dumb, deceitful double agents who are really spinning for the best interests
of the corporations and hardly doing their job as CIVIL SERVANTS – we seem to
have forgotten the meaning of this word..
Best,
Mark
—If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking
To leave the group, email: ...

Originally from: Ron

Thank you Mark, for your detailed reply.

There is certainly a large amount of wolfram/tungsten on Bodmin Moor. It was open-cast mined in the First World War, by German POWs, many of whom died in the 1919 influenza epidemic. You can still see the remains of the POW Camp near Bowithick.

Pity we can't win the Lottery to get funds for you.

Regards, Ron.

----- Original Message -----
From: ...
Originally from: <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] RE: Relaunch of Defra's BSE
Dear Ron,
Good questions. It is the particular type of igneous rock ( granites, etc ) which determines how much radiation absorbing metal ( eg uranium, barium, strontium, etc ) is going to be present. There are quite a few different types
of granite which are very varied in respect of their capacity to absorb radioactivity.
In orkney / shetland it is the Old Red Sandstone, as well as the granites, that are very high in the uranium / barium deposits – so much so that they wanted to mine the uranium deposits there during the Thatcher era , much to the
horror of the local islanders. Other human and eco-factors are also very relevant in determining how much uranium / barium is released / leached into the
open environment ( eg; into the topsoil, atmosphere, vegetation / food crops etc). It could remain locked up in the bedrock.
I understand that there is a moderate amount of scrapie on Dartmoor ( the main granitic area of the SW ) , with plenty of BSE in the areas that were populated by bovines. South Devon was particularly heavily affected with BSE,
particularly in the areas where the 'bluestone' surfaces in the top soil – bluestone has a well renowned ability to absorb ionising radiation, and MAFF were
conducting many soil tests down there after the Chernobyl accident.
There is a linear clustering of scrapie that runs along the back of the Brendon hills ( starts near to my farm ) and then Exmoor to the coast at Woolacombe. It's ordovician bedrock, with high levels of barium and manganese. The
manganese used to be mined in places. Copper / selenium are low.
It is really interesting what you say about china clay. It would be interesting to follow that up and analyse the stuff, since I know that potters and
ceramic workers ( glass workers too ) get high rates of both CJD and Parkinson'
s, but I had always ascribed that to the use of barium, strontium and/or manganese in the glazes – eg; not due to the clays.
The Lizard peninsula is wholly igneous rock – serpentine. This would make an
interesting study of the types of metals in the serpentine rock and the possible rates of scrapie in the local sheep flocks, if any. Well, a comparative
study needs to be conducted in the sheep flocks that are grazed over the pockets of igneous and non igneous rocks all over the UK.
Genetics certainly has a major role in scrapie too, perhaps by increasing susceptibility of the animal to an increased uptake of these rogue metals or to
an inadequate ability of the animal to neutralise the effects of the radicals
that the rogue radioactive metals generate.
In fact so much 'in depth' research needs to be done to follow up on the cursory studies that I have managed to do, but of course the major stumbling
block here falls back on the issue of funding. Since government and corporations
only fund projects that support their particular commercial and political agendas, its become impossible for the likes of people like me to take this research forward. Its an appalling situation which is getting progressively worse as the years go by. Fifteen years ago , there were actually some good people working within MAFF, but over recent years these people seem to have somehow fallen by the wayside, only to be replaced by a bunch of totally corrupt,
dumb, deceitful double agents who are really spinning for the best interests
of the corporations and hardly doing their job as CIVIL SERVANTS – we seem to
have forgotten the meaning of this word..
Best,
Mark
—If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking
To leave the group, email: ...

Originally from: mark purdey

Dear Ron,

Thanks for the info. We give scouring calves Kaolin . And I think that my 18 year old daughter had some Kaolin ( which we had given to her !! ) for dysentery when she was teaching in the outbacks of India !! help......? aluminum silicates have been linked to one of the progressive disease processes in alzheimers ?

Best,

Mark