Jiglu: Farmtalking: Discussion: Re: Heartbeat clue to BSE

Originally from: Bill

I do not believe that cattle have been "infected" by feeding them "infected" brain tissue, the whole article appears to be a load of nonesense.

Irregular heartbeat can be caused for a host of different reasons, viral infection being one. Are they now to start killing everything that has an irregular heart best?

Bill.

Originally from: mona parr

01 June 2004

Researchers in Manchester have developed a reliable, non-invasive method to help diagnose the early signs of the prion disease BSE in cattle and other transmissible spongiform encephalopathies.
Dr Chris Pomfrett and his colleagues at the Manchester Royal Infirmary have shown that abnormalities in heart function can be detected long before the characteristic behavioural changes seen in prion disease. They say a test based on measuring variations in the intervals between heartbeats could provide a simpler and more efficient method than the only current tests for use in the live patient. These are based on cutting out samples of lymphatic system tissue and looking for evidence of the abnormal proteins that cause TSEs (transmissible spongiform encephalopathies).

The research, published in this week\x{2019}s Veterinary Record, involved taking regular electrocardiogram measurements of cattle at the government research station ADAS Drayton in Warwickshire that had been experimentally infected with BSE by feeding them infected brain tissue. Heart rate is controlled by nerve cells in the brainstem, the region at the base of the brain where the highest concentrations of prion protein are found in advanced cases of BSE examined postmortem. Two particular structures, the dorsal cagal motor nucleus and the nucleus ambiguous are directly connected to the heart via the vagal nerve. But this nerve also serves the gut and it is thought that the brain is infected in BSE by infective prions tracking up this nerve after being absorbed across the intestinal wall.

An ability to make sudden changes in heart rate is important for any organism in responding to danger or strong emotion and signals from the brain along the vagal nerve help to slow the heart back down again.

Dr Pomfrett explained: \x{201C}This function has been described as the vagal brake and has very powerful effects on heart function. In extreme cases it can even stop the heart completely \x{2013} there is a condition known as voodoo death in which people can literally be scared to death. What we are seeing in cattle with BSE and human vCJD patients is an intermittent action of the vagus, repeatedly cutting in and out in a very abnormal manner.\x{201D}

Dr Pomfrett says this pattern of activity which affects the regularity of the gaps between beats but may not actually change the numbers of beats per minute is \x{201C}absolute characteristic\x{201D} of both BSE and vCJD. The only difference between the two is that those changes seen in cattle are more subtle because cows are usually diagnosed with the disease at a much earlier stage than human patients. \x{201C}But our test detects changes that precede even the most sensitive clinical signs such as an unwillingness to cross a section of gating on the cattle shed floor,\x{201D} he added.

Cattle are usually slaughtered as soon as these behavioural changes appear and on welfare grounds are never allowed to reach the stage of staggering in-coordination seen in the archive footage shown regularly on television. The University of Manchester has been granted US and European patents on Dr Pomfrett\x{2019}s discovery and the technology has been licensed to a private company to develop a system for commercial testing.

Originally from: Bill

"it is thought" (THOUGHT!!!!!) " that the brain is infected in BSE by infective prions tracking up this nerve" (the vagal nerve) "after being absorbed across the intestinal wall".

So presumably one would expect the "prion" to be found at locations along this nerve, so why is it not?

Bill.

Originally from: Joyce

Thanks Mona and Bill for info I've passed to the forum for a-fibbers as a warning!!

http://www.yourhealthbase.com
http://www.yourhealthbase.com/forum/read.php?f=3&i=13577&t=13577
AF most common heart condition in dairy cows
and
http://www.yourhealthbase.com/forum/read.php?f=3&i=13718&t=13718
Biochemistry of neurodegeneration.

What does strike me immediately since I have been reading about a-fib, is how the Manchester research vindicates Mark Purdey's work. I do believe it won't be so long now before the lies are exposed re BSE. Joyce

Originally from: Joyce

Glad to see your response, Mark.... I'll be posting a link to this on many other sites!
Joyce

... wrote:

Hi folks,
Yea, this abnormal heartbeat was something that I had observed in all four
cattle that had had BSE orders slapped on them after I had brought them onto
my farm. I tried to get the government vets interested in this phenomena, but
any symptom that was not directly connected to the central nervous system
disturbance was completely ignored and considered as an irrelevant incidental
symptom – despite many farmers noticing this phenomena in their BSE cattle.(
As well as the abnormal pulse rate, I had also noticed a kind of surge of
pressure build up in the carotid artery, as though the wall had lost their
elasticity – copper deficiency ? )
Other unreported , though common features of BSE involved prolonged bouts of
milk fever ( hypocalcaemia ) about six months before the first clinical
signs of BSE emerged. The milk fever was unusually in that it could not be
rectified with the customary single bottle of calcium. The cow would be down for
about two weeks. There was also a syndrome of bone crumbling / wastage that was
usually evident around the pelvis. Again, whilst commonly reported by
farmers, these BSE symptoms were ignored. But they do fit the picture of a mineral
imbalance syndrome, perhaps where strontium 90 or barium has replaced calcium
/ magnesium at some key calcium / magnesium sites in the body. These rogue
metals then multireplicate themselves into significant sized crystal-protein
arrays. This would account for the Central nervous system effects too.
Given the latest BSE cases that have arisen ( eg in Japan and Canada) where
no possible exposure to feed has been identified, I am amazed that the meat
and bone meal cover story on the cause of BSE is still maintaining
credibility. You would have thought that these latest countries that are relatively new
to BSE would have nothing to loose by questioning these major flaws in the
official hypothesis.
But I suppose as long as our mass media continues to be controlled by such
unintelligent and inept journalists as James Meikle ( ?) of the Guardian –
who are merely singing for their supper ( or should I say 'spinning' for their
supper ) – then we are all going to be forced down a one way street into
small farmer suicide. But what the likes of the blinkered bureaucracies and
advisories such as the Food Standards Agency, Roy Anderson, et al, do not realise
, is that life on earth depends upon livestock to produce manure, to feed
soil micro life, to provide soil fertility. Without soil fertility we will have
catastrophic famine across the earth.
But since most of the Food Standards Agency are in bed with the chemical
corporations, they are never going to allow themselves to see that it is the
overexposure of our agricultural systems to a cocktail of chemicals that is
hammering the T immune systems, thereby rendering all mammalian life on earth to
an increased susceptibility to viral / bacteriological conditions – eg these
various microorganisms are opportunistically taking ahold of our chemically
compromised immune systems. So instead of advising on a reduction of chemicals
( which would hurt their vested interests ), they simply push the whole
problem under the carpet by demanding mass slaughter of whole flocks / herds in
which any single animal is exhibiting one or other of these chemically induced
immunotoxic, "microbiological" diseases – eg; TB, brucellosis, BSE, etc,
etc, .
I hope that our children end up suing our current generation ( eg those in
government ) for the disgraceful way in which we have squandered large slices
of public money on launching self protecting campaigns that are solely
designed to put massive cover stories in place – in order to hide the truth of
what real problems are going on behind the scenes – eg; the negative health
effects of their chemical sales.
The problem is that those responsible will be dead before our children begin
to suffer the disastrous consequences of our misguided corporate farming p
rogrammes. DEFRA, Roy Anderson, The Food Standards agency, James Meikle, et al,
should be prosecuted in a criminal court for deliberately deceiving the
nation. They should be flung into gaol immediately, and those who have
misappropriated public funds for furthering selfish interests should be forced to pay
it all back, so it can be rechannelled into totally impartial proper
scientific research . The inept idiots !!!
Having just returned from delivering 22 lectures across Canada and America,
I was appalled to learn that the British government ( well, the corporate
infiltrates ) had been deliberately decieving any Canadian / US officials who
had made inquiries to them about my BSE research and theory. All of these North
American officials had been severely mislead by the following UK gov
statement – " that usage of systemic OP warble fly treatments had totally ceased by
1982 in the UK, and since virtually all cows that developed BSE had been born
after 1982, then how could these OP warblecides have played a role in the
cause of BSE."
Well, it is ironic that it was DEFRA / MAFF themselves who had been
responsible for instigating the compulsory 'WARBLE FLY ORDER ENGLAND AND WALES
1982. A statutory Act that was actually first instigated in 1982 – eg; the
total opposite of what they have told the North American officials !!! How can we
have any respect at all for these totally bogus idiots. Why do we continue
to tolerate this crap, and allow their lies to pull down the splendour of our
whole agricultural industry ???????? We must destroy them at once. We owe it
to our children and grandchildren. As free thinking individuals, we have the
power to carry this out.
Best,
Mark Purdey
--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking
To leave the group, email: ...

Originally from: mark purdey

Hi folks,

Yea, this abnormal heartbeat was something that I had observed in all four cattle that had had BSE orders slapped on them after I had brought them onto my farm. I tried to get the government vets interested in this phenomena, but any symptom that was not directly connected to the central nervous system disturbance was completely ignored and considered as an irrelevant incidental symptom – despite many farmers noticing this phenomena in their BSE cattle.( As well as the abnormal pulse rate, I had also noticed a kind of surge of pressure build up in the carotid artery, as though the wall had lost their elasticity – copper deficiency ? )

Other unreported , though common features of BSE involved prolonged bouts of milk fever ( hypocalcaemia ) about six months before the first clinical signs of BSE emerged. The milk fever was unusually in that it could not be rectified with the customary single bottle of calcium. The cow would be down for about two weeks. There was also a syndrome of bone crumbling / wastage that was usually evident around the pelvis. Again, whilst commonly reported by farmers, these BSE symptoms were ignored. But they do fit the picture of a mineral imbalance syndrome, perhaps where strontium 90 or barium has replaced calcium
/ magnesium at some key calcium / magnesium sites in the body. These rogue metals then multireplicate themselves into significant sized crystal-protein arrays. This would account for the Central nervous system effects too.

Given the latest BSE cases that have arisen ( eg in Japan and Canada) where no possible exposure to feed has been identified, I am amazed that the meat and bone meal cover story on the cause of BSE is still maintaining credibility. You would have thought that these latest countries that are relatively new to BSE would have nothing to loose by questioning these major flaws in the official hypothesis.

But I suppose as long as our mass media continues to be controlled by such unintelligent and inept journalists as James Meikle ( ?) of the Guardian – who are merely singing for their supper ( or should I say 'spinning' for their supper ) – then we are all going to be forced down a one way street into small farmer suicide. But what the likes of the blinkered bureaucracies and advisories such as the Food Standards Agency, Roy Anderson, et al, do not realise
, is that life on earth depends upon livestock to produce manure, to feed soil micro life, to provide soil fertility. Without soil fertility we will have
catastrophic famine across the earth.

But since most of the Food Standards Agency are in bed with the chemical corporations, they are never going to allow themselves to see that it is the overexposure of our agricultural systems to a cocktail of chemicals that is hammering the T immune systems, thereby rendering all mammalian life on earth to an increased susceptibility to viral / bacteriological conditions – eg these various microorganisms are opportunistically taking ahold of our chemically compromised immune systems. So instead of advising on a reduction of chemicals
( which would hurt their vested interests ), they simply push the whole problem under the carpet by demanding mass slaughter of whole flocks / herds in which any single animal is exhibiting one or other of these chemically induced immunotoxic, "microbiological" diseases – eg; TB, brucellosis, BSE, etc, etc, .

I hope that our children end up suing our current generation ( eg those in government ) for the disgraceful way in which we have squandered large slices of public money on launching self protecting campaigns that are solely designed to put massive cover stories in place – in order to hide the truth of what real problems are going on behind the scenes – eg; the negative health effects of their chemical sales.

The problem is that those responsible will be dead before our children begin to suffer the disastrous consequences of our misguided corporate farming p rogrammes. DEFRA, Roy Anderson, The Food Standards agency, James Meikle, et al, should be prosecuted in a criminal court for deliberately deceiving the nation. They should be flung into gaol immediately, and those who have misappropriated public funds for furthering selfish interests should be forced to pay it all back, so it can be rechannelled into totally impartial proper scientific research . The inept idiots !!!

Having just returned from delivering 22 lectures across Canada and America, I was appalled to learn that the British government ( well, the corporate infiltrates ) had been deliberately decieving any Canadian / US officials who had made inquiries to them about my BSE research and theory. All of these North American officials had been severely mislead by the following UK gov statement – " that usage of systemic OP warble fly treatments had totally ceased by 1982 in the UK, and since virtually all cows that developed BSE had been born after 1982, then how could these OP warblecides have played a role in the cause of BSE."

Well, it is ironic that it was DEFRA / MAFF themselves who had been responsible for instigating the compulsory 'WARBLE FLY ORDER ENGLAND AND WALES 1982. A statutory Act that was actually first instigated in 1982 – eg; the total opposite of what they have told the North American officials !!! How can we have any respect at all for these totally bogus idiots. Why do we continue to tolerate this crap, and allow their lies to pull down the splendour of our whole agricultural industry ???????? We must destroy them at once. We owe it to our children and grandchildren. As free thinking individuals, we have the power to carry this out.

Best,

Mark Purdey

Originally from: Mick

Could someone give the Landward programme details and contacts for the rock dust trail

Originally from: mona parr

Landward programme yesterday quite interesting--talking about soil deficiences and use of volcanic dust left from stone quarrying as fertiliser. Would be interested in analysis of this by-product.

Programme introduction--
Rock Dust
Lindsay Cannon reports from Perthshire where volcanoes are helping grow bigger, better crops.
She meets a Scottish couple who have battled for twenty years to prove their theory that volcanic rock dust can be used as a cheap and effective organic fertilizer.

The success of small scale experiments with a simple, environmentally-friendly alternative to chemical fertilizers have produced such spectacular results on a bleak Perthshire hillside, that the Scottish Executive has decided to provide financial support for the first ever UK field trials of rock dust

Originally from: mona parr

Mick
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/tv/home/lifestyle/landward/index.shtml

There is a Forum if you scroll down the page--someone may be able to help

Mona

Originally from: Pat Gardiner

I'm always very strongly struck by Mark's contributions and opinions – and for a rather unobvious reason.

I've come to very much the same general conclusions even though (and this is the important part) from an entirely different background, experiences and disciplines.

When people with the same fields, and perhaps prejudices, come to the same conclusions, it is not so surprising, but when they are worlds apart in their skills and interests, they are likely to have stumbled upon something pretty serious.

I know nothing about livestock or science, but do know about journalism and spin; about international business and trade.

Britain has been systematically lying to our overseas friends. She has been lying to her own consumers and to her farmers.

If you are going to pull a confidence trick on this scale, you have to tell people things they want to hear.

This is not particularly party political. It has gone on for a long time – and through the tenure of both the main political parties.

There are links between BSE, FMD, CSF and all the other animal health problems. Some may be scientific, but the balance of probability is that they are man made delusions. Spin is not just telling other people what they want to hear, it is also telling ourselves what we want to hear – and drowning out any voices of warning.

Most of us, myself included, would be very happy to blame Blair and the EU. But the facts pointing in that direction simply don't stack up.

The animal health problems in Britain predate Blair and are not particularly associated with the EU.

Mark is a pretty important man. I'm always stuck by his absolute certainty that something is badly wrong in respect of the BSE official story – and his open-mindedness in taking serious cognisance of all the alternatives. That is a very unusual stance – and one that obviously carries a high degree of integrity.

He is right. Personal circumstances and experiences caused me to look back from CSF into BSE and then forward into FMD. What I found shook me badly. It was quickly clear that the science is rubbish, cooked up to meet pressure for explanations and belatedly the need to be seen to be doing something.

Maybe Blair and the EU do need censure for their parts, but they are not the central players. The culprits are all in British science, mostly veterinarians and either civil servants or otherwise dependant on the government for grants and preferment. These guys have got too close to big business. Big business is big business – they react in predictable ways.

I don't think the scientists are getting brown envelopes stuffed with fivers, but they do know on which side their bread is buttered.

They have all got far too slick with the press, manipulating data and at pushing paper.

Big business wanted a particular result – exoneration, and these people gave them what they wanted.

When CSF erupted, it was not another BSE that they feared, it was the fact that they thought the public might think it was. This was why they hid up the ownership of the original herds – they did not want anyone querying the official version. Very quickly, we were getting stories of everything from seagulls to Afghan refugees. Anything to divert attention well away from the state of Britain's pigs the secret PMWS epidemic and the common feed supplier.

They didn't know then where CSF had come from, but they were quite certain of the explanations and investigations they did not want. In short, anything likely to place the blame with big business or the civil service.

FMD was much the same.

The government-paid scientists and quangoites fear the farmers: the one group that might have both the interest and the knowledge to threaten their gravy train.

They have to give farming stories and explanations that farming well find acceptable – and keep the money tap open to appeal to farming's self-interest....and that is what you have been getting via the quangos.

However, they can only hold a fabrication on this scale for a limited time – and time is running out. The money is drying up, the contradictions in the official stories are starting to become obvious, the human rights abuses stack-up, the animal welfare people are everywhere.

It is only a matter of time before Maff-Defra get defections and increasing numbers of whistle-blowers. The fact that the EU won't pay up for their share of the FMD fiasco, should light the blue touch-paper.

I'm optimistic. Mark is going to be quite a famous man. It will be something to look forward to. He deserves his place in history.

Regards
Pat Gardiner
www.go-self-sufficient.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ...
Originally from: ... [...] Sent: 13 June 2004 20:18
To: ...
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] RE: Heartbeat clue to BSE
Hi folks,
Yea, this abnormal heartbeat was something that I had observed in all four cattle that had had BSE orders slapped on them after I had brought them onto my farm. I tried to get the government vets interested in this phenomena, but any symptom that was not directly connected to the central nervous system disturbance was completely ignored and considered as an irrelevant incidental symptom – despite many farmers noticing this phenomena in their BSE cattle.( As well as the abnormal pulse rate, I had also noticed a kind of surge of pressure build up in the carotid artery, as though the wall had lost their elasticity – copper deficiency ? )
Other unreported , though common features of BSE involved prolonged bouts of milk fever ( hypocalcaemia ) about six months before the first clinical signs of BSE emerged. The milk fever was unusually in that it could not be rectified with the customary single bottle of calcium. The cow would be down for about two weeks. There was also a syndrome of bone crumbling / wastage that was usually evident around the pelvis. Again, whilst commonly reported by farmers, these BSE symptoms were ignored. But they do fit the picture of a mineral imbalance syndrome, perhaps where strontium 90 or barium has replaced calcium / magnesium at some key calcium / magnesium sites in the body. These rogue metals then multireplicate themselves into significant sized crystal-protein arrays. This would account for the Central nervous system effects too.
Given the latest BSE cases that have arisen ( eg in Japan and Canada) where no possible exposure to feed has been identified, I am amazed that the meat and bone meal cover story on the cause of BSE is still maintaining credibility. You would have thought that these latest countries that are relatively new to BSE would have nothing to loose by questioning these major flaws in the official hypothesis.
But I suppose as long as our mass media continues to be controlled by such unintelligent and inept journalists as James Meikle ( ?) of the Guardian – who are merely singing for their supper ( or should I say 'spinning' for their supper ) – then we are all going to be forced down a one way street into small farmer suicide. But what the likes of the blinkered bureaucracies and advisories such as the Food Standards Agency, Roy Anderson, et al, do not realise , is that life on earth depends upon livestock to produce manure, to feed soil micro life, to provide soil fertility. Without soil fertility we will have catastrophic famine across the earth.
But since most of the Food Standards Agency are in bed with the chemical corporations, they are never going to allow themselves to see that it is the overexposure of our agricultural systems to a cocktail of chemicals that is hammering the T immune systems, thereby rendering all mammalian life on earth to an increased susceptibility to viral / bacteriological conditions – eg these various microorganisms are opportunistically taking ahold of our chemically compromised immune systems. So instead of advising on a reduction of chemicals ( which would hurt their vested interests ), they simply push the whole problem under the carpet by demanding mass slaughter of whole flocks / herds in which any single animal is exhibiting one or other of these chemically induced immunotoxic, "microbiological" diseases – eg; TB, brucellosis, BSE, etc, etc, .
I hope that our children end up suing our current generation ( eg those in government ) for the disgraceful way in which we have squandered large slices
of public money on launching self protecting campaigns that are solely designed to put massive cover stories in place – in order to hide the truth of what real problems are going on behind the scenes – eg; the negative health effects of their chemical sales.
The problem is that those responsible will be dead before our children begin to suffer the disastrous consequences of our misguided corporate farming p rogrammes. DEFRA, Roy Anderson, The Food Standards agency, James Meikle, et al, should be prosecuted in a criminal court for deliberately deceiving the nation. They should be flung into gaol immediately, and those who have misappropriated public funds for furthering selfish interests should be forced to pay it all back, so it can be rechannelled into totally impartial proper scientific research . The inept idiots !!!
Having just returned from delivering 22 lectures across Canada and America, I was appalled to learn that the British government ( well, the corporate infiltrates ) had been deliberately decieving any Canadian / US officials who had made inquiries to them about my BSE research and theory. All of these North American officials had been severely mislead by the following UK gov statement – " that usage of systemic OP warble fly treatments had totally ceased by 1982 in the UK, and since virtually all cows that developed BSE had been born after 1982, then how could these OP warblecides have played a role in the cause of BSE."
Well, it is ironic that it was DEFRA / MAFF themselves who had been responsible for instigating the compulsory 'WARBLE FLY ORDER ENGLAND AND WALES 1982. A statutory Act that was actually first instigated in 1982 – eg; the total opposite of what they have told the North American officials
!!! How can we have any respect at all for these totally bogus idiots. Why do we continue to tolerate this crap, and allow their lies to pull down the splendour of our whole agricultural industry ???????? We must destroy them at once. We owe it to our children and grandchildren. As free thinking individuals, we have the power to carry this out.
Best,
Mark Purdey
—If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking
To leave the group, email: ...
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Originally from: Farmtalking

Hi!

Just a note to let everyone know that Pat is a 'guy' not a 'gal'!

I'm sure he'll be amused and not at all offended by Mark's unintentional change of his gender!

Author wrote:
Dear All,
I did so agree with what Pat had written a few days ago; particularly the
point she had made about when people from totally different backgrounds and
perspectives come up with exactly the same conclusion, and how such a broadly
derived conclusion is likely to hold strong merit.
Like Pat, I am also amazed that our system seems to remain wedded to the
government spun propaganda despite the myriad of flaws that are well evident.
And this goes well beyond the confines of the BSE debacle; which is just the
tip of the iceberg.
I am also amazed that nobody from within the establishment has blown the
whistle bigtime. There are some intelligent vets and scientists within the
government who I have come to know from the days when i was invited up to round
table discussion with the various government depts during the 1990s. I had
always guessed – from their body language and cryptic hints at these meetings (
particularly pronounced when the tape recorder was turned off for the
'working' lunch break !! ) – that they were privately supportive of my position. But
this makes a mockery of the whole system, surely ? – since we are left with
a government that draws its advice from judiciously selected teams of
exclusive advisory committees – dressed up to look very independent and democratic
!! – who are all too scared to advise government according to their own
personal beliefs and knowledge.
This phenomena of 'fabricated advice' within our bogus democracy has
escalated under new labour to epidemic proportions, and is, of course, not just
endemic to UK bureaucracies. Its sadly become a global problem. In this respect,
how long can our earth continue to survive when we are being governed by
teams of carefully selected , so called 'independent', 'yes minister' advisors ?
Our environment needs TRUTH if it is to survive, not the consistent creation
of crafty cover stories that have only served to enable the multinationals
to continue with their resistance against much needed change.
Best Wishes,
Mark Purdey

Originally from: mark purdey

Dear All,

I did so agree with what Pat had written a few days ago; particularly the point she had made about when people from totally different backgrounds and perspectives come up with exactly the same conclusion, and how such a broadly derived conclusion is likely to hold strong merit.

Like Pat, I am also amazed that our system seems to remain wedded to the government spun propaganda despite the myriad of flaws that are well evident. And this goes well beyond the confines of the BSE debacle; which is just the tip of the iceberg.

I am also amazed that nobody from within the establishment has blown the whistle bigtime. There are some intelligent vets and scientists within the government who I have come to know from the days when i was invited up to round table discussion with the various government depts during the 1990s. I had always guessed – from their body language and cryptic hints at these meetings ( particularly pronounced when the tape recorder was turned off for the 'working' lunch break !! ) – that they were privately supportive of my position. But this makes a mockery of the whole system, surely ? – since we are left with a government that draws its advice from judiciously selected teams of exclusive advisory committees – dressed up to look very independent and democratic
!! – who are all too scared to advise government according to their own personal beliefs and knowledge.

This phenomena of 'fabricated advice' within our bogus democracy has escalated under new labour to epidemic proportions, and is, of course, not just endemic to UK bureaucracies. Its sadly become a global problem. In this respect, how long can our earth continue to survive when we are being governed by teams of carefully selected , so called 'independent', 'yes minister' advisors ? Our environment needs TRUTH if it is to survive, not the consistent creation of crafty cover stories that have only served to enable the multinationals to continue with their resistance against much needed change.

Best Wishes,

Mark Purdey

Originally from: mark purdey

Sorry Pat to embroil you in a sex change !!! All the Pat's I have ever known have always been women !! What a laugh.

Mark

Originally from: Pat Gardiner

It is far worse than that. My wife is also Pat, which is why I always refer to her as

Mrs P.

My

real name is actually George Patrick. My very Irish mother did a deal with my very English father, but naturally renounced the deal immediately I was born, mostly I suspect to annoy her father-in-law, who was also George.

...and that's a long story.

Regards
Pat