Jiglu: Farmtalking: Discussion: Re: BSE/Scrapie files

Originally from: Ron

Mary Critchley of Warmwell and I are good friends from the early days of The Foot and Mouth Horror/Madness. She has sent me Muckscraper 20 November 2003. I forward it to you with the following comment:-

Have we not learnt anything from Foot and Mouth when almost 12 Million animals were slaughtered, of which less than 2 Million were supposed to be infected. Where vets, government officials, police and the Services bullied and lied their way through the Countryside. Where good and honest farmers were reduced to physical wrecks, some have never fully recovered. There have been around 60 suicides. We are left with long term environmental pollution.

So you co-operate with inflicting further madness on the rural community!

What the hell is the point of us protecting an already limited gene pool for some lunatic to decide to reduce it even further by this mad scheme.

Next year, with luck, we may have some first-class lambs. Especially as we have an excellent example of a Shetland Ram, he of the twice tested R1, plus DNA testing. Three of our ewes were 1st, 2nd and 4th in the Carlisle Show last year. We are breeding for colour and quality.

My farmer friend who is a good sheep man chose those lambs last year without knowing anything about Shetlands and not realising that they had won in the Show. He sees our Flock every day and says that they are superb sheep.

If you do not believe that the whole scheme is madness visit www.mikepurdey.com and that is just part of it. The Schemes have been challenged by others.

I am truthfully already beginning to regret that we decided , late in our lives, to have our own flock of Pedigree Sheep. Our intention was to fight like hell if Defra turned up with another planned massacre. We did not think we would have to defend ourselves against the complacency of fellow breeders!

Ron.

----- Original Message -----
From: ...
Originally from: "maryatwarmwell" <...>
To: "Another Old Codger" <...>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: BSE/Scrapie files
Thank you very much Ron
Mary xx
Here is Muckspreader
Muckspreader 20 november 2003
***
Phyllida Barstowe is not only an admired novelist and married to the journalist Duff Hart-Davis, but professionally breeds Wiltshire Horn sheep on their Gloucestershire farm. Until recently her flock roamed happily over the meadows round a fine young pure-bred ram. Then, on 1 September, she was visited by the department for the elimination of farming and rural affairs (Defra), to test her sheep under the EU-sponsored 'National Scrapie Plan'. To understand what happened next, some background is relevant. Defra, it may be remembered, has spent millions of pounds trying to establish a link between scrapie, a brain disease affecting a tiny minority of sheep, and BSE, a brain disease affecting a tiny minority of cattle. They haven't actually found any link (although readers may recall the famous episode when they tested thousands of sheep's brains for two years, only to discover they had been looking at the brains of cows).
The reason for such excitement, of course, is that Defra still believes there may be a link between BSE and vCJD, a brain disease affecting a tiny minority of human beings. So, if they can prove a link between scrapie and BSE, this would be a tremendous breakthrough, because it would show there may be a link between eating sheep and CJD. They also believe that a tiny minority of sheep are genetically susceptible to scrapie. They have therefore taken this as justification, on EU orders, to test pedigree sheep. Any which do not have the 'scrapie-resistant genes', they can then order to be slaughtered or castrated.
Every step of Defra's tortuous logic is in fact based on a hypothesis for which there is no proof. There is no proven link between eating cattle infected with BSE and CJD (indeed this becomes ever more implausible). There is no evidence that any sheep has ever naturally become infected with BSE There is no evidence that scrapie has ever infected humans. Even the theory about scrapie-resistant genes has been rubbished by one of the top independent scientists in the field. Dr. Alan Dickenson. The whole of the EU's scrapie eradication programme thus rests on a card-house of unproven hypotheses.
When Defra tested the brains of 54,000 sheep from abattoirs, they did find 56 infected with scrapie. But no fewer than eight of these also possessed their so-called 'scrapie resistant genotype'. Since this made total nonsense of their theory, they then carried out another test, which luckily came out with the result they were after: i.e. that only 28 of the sheep were infected with scrapie, none of which had the resistant gene. 'At present it is not known if the cause of these findings' said Defra, 'is a flaw in the methodology'. But, flawed methodology or not, the great thing was they still had the excuse they needed to kill any animal they could find without that 'resistant gene'.
All of which brings us back to Mrs Hart-Davis's Wiltshire Horn ram, Of course it turned out to be the one animal in her flock without the resistant gene. So, although it was a perfectly healthy young sheep, off to the slaughterhouse under EU rules it had to go – on the basis of four different hypotheses piled on top of each other, for not one of which there is any proof a genuine scientist could accept. Mrs Hart-Davis was none too pleased.

Originally from: coleen

I am afraid Ron, that we little people 'could never know what is happening in the REAL sheep World' we little people will always be outsiders'. It the dreaded day ever comes when they do decide to take your sheep, my sheep – it would give me NO pleasure to say 'well I did try to tell you so', to the keepers, breeders and enthusiastics of this breed .

We did not go to Carlisle this year – because the future does not look certain – does it? (we also knew you would be buying up the show Ron!!

Our Shetland sheep are 'beauties' not because they came from one of the top breeders in the Country, but because we love them for all of their traits and silly little ways. Some people need to realise that you cannot undo what DEFRA and their scientific advisers are propelling them towards . Waking up and crying afterward the event will be useless. Once gone – that's it. We seem to be sitting back and just waiting for the axe to fall.

Coleen

----- Original Message -----
From: ...
Originally from: "Another Old Codger" <...> To: "Shetland Sheep Link" <...>; "Foot and Mouth Group" <...>; "Farmtalking Email" <...>; "maryatwarmwell" <...>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:59 PM
Subject: [farmtalking] Re: BSE/Scrapie files
Mary Critchley of Warmwell and I are good friends from the early days of
The
Foot and Mouth Horror/Madness. She has sent me Muckscraper 20 November
2003.
I forward it to you with the following comment:-
Have we not learnt anything from Foot and Mouth when almost 12 Million
animals were slaughtered, of which less than 2 Million were supposed to be
infected. Where vets, government officials, police and the Services
bullied
and lied their way through the Countryside. Where good and honest farmers
were reduced to physical wrecks, some have never fully recovered. There
have
been around 60 suicides. We are left with long term environmental
pollution.

So you co-operate with inflicting further madness on the rural community!
What the hell is the point of us protecting an already limited gene pool
for
some lunatic to decide to reduce it even further by this mad scheme.
Next year, with luck, we may have some first-class lambs. Especially as we
have an excellent example of a Shetland Ram, he of the twice tested R1,
plus
DNA testing. Three of our ewes were 1st, 2nd and 4th in the Carlisle Show
last year. We are breeding for colour and quality.
My farmer friend who is a good sheep man chose those lambs last year
without
knowing anything about Shetlands and not realising that they had won in
the
Show. He sees our Flock every day and says that they are superb sheep.
If you do not believe that the whole scheme is madness visit
www.mikepurdey.com and that is just part of it. The Schemes have been
challenged by others.
I am truthfully already beginning to regret that we decided , late in our
lives, to have our own flock of Pedigree Sheep. Our intention was to fight
like hell if Defra turned up with another planned massacre. We did not
think
we would have to defend ourselves against the complacency of fellow
breeders!
Ron.
----- Original Message -----
From: "maryatwarmwell" <...>
To: "Another Old Codger" <...>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: BSE/Scrapie files
Thank you very much Ron
Mary xx
Here is Muckspreader
Muckspreader 20 november 2003
***
Phyllida Barstowe is not only an admired novelist and married to the
journalist Duff Hart-Davis, but professionally breeds Wiltshire Horn sheep
on their Gloucestershire farm. Until recently her flock roamed happily
over
the meadows round a fine young pure-bred ram. Then, on 1 September, she
was
visited by the department for the elimination of farming and rural affairs
(Defra), to test her sheep under the EU-sponsored 'National Scrapie Plan'.
To understand what happened next, some background is relevant. Defra, it
may
be remembered, has spent millions of pounds trying to establish a link
between scrapie, a brain disease affecting a tiny minority of sheep, and
BSE, a brain disease affecting a tiny minority of cattle. They haven't
actually found any link (although readers may recall the famous episode
when
they tested thousands of sheep's brains for two years, only to discover
they
had been looking at the brains of cows).
The reason for such excitement, of course, is that Defra still believes
there may be a link between BSE and vCJD, a brain disease affecting a tiny
minority of human beings. So, if they can prove a link between scrapie and
BSE, this would be a tremendous breakthrough, because it would show there
may be a link between eating sheep and CJD. They also believe that a tiny
minority of sheep are genetically susceptible to scrapie. They have
therefore taken this as justification, on EU orders, to test pedigree
sheep.
Any which do not have the 'scrapie-resistant genes', they can then order
to
be slaughtered or castrated.
Every step of Defra's tortuous logic is in fact based on a hypothesis for
which there is no proof. There is no proven link between eating cattle
infected with BSE and CJD (indeed this becomes ever more implausible).
There
is no evidence that any sheep has ever naturally become infected with BSE
There is no evidence that scrapie has ever infected humans. Even the
theory
about scrapie-resistant genes has been rubbished by one of the top
independent scientists in the field. Dr. Alan Dickenson. The whole of the
EU's scrapie eradication programme thus rests on a card-house of unproven
hypotheses.
When Defra tested the brains of 54,000 sheep from abattoirs, they did find
56 infected with scrapie. But no fewer than eight of these also possessed
their so-called 'scrapie resistant genotype'. Since this made total
nonsense
of their theory, they then carried out another test, which luckily came
out
with the result they were after: i.e. that only 28 of the sheep were
infected with scrapie, none of which had the resistant gene. 'At present
it
is not known if the cause of these findings' said Defra, 'is a flaw in the
methodology'. But, flawed methodology or not, the great thing was they
still
had the excuse they needed to kill any animal they could find without that
'resistant gene'.
All of which brings us back to Mrs Hart-Davis's Wiltshire Horn ram, Of
course it turned out to be the one animal in her flock without the
resistant
gene. So, although it was a perfectly healthy young sheep, off to the
slaughterhouse under EU rules it had to go – on the basis of four
different
hypotheses piled on top of each other, for not one of which there is any
proof a genuine scientist could accept. Mrs Hart-Davis was none too
pleased.
--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking
To leave the group, email: ...

Originally from: Pat Gardiner

Do you know? I've really come to like Mark. I have absolutely no idea whether he is right or not, but I have eyeballed some of our top scientists. They are the kind of pathetic rubbish that would not get a job in a properly run shipping office, let alone be at the top of the Scientific Civil Service.

We have to rethink our appointment to and financing of veterinary science in the UK.

Mark is right. So long as you tell the truth, when you are flattened, you get up and go back at them, so they flatten you again, you get up again....ad infinitum

The liars and gong hunters will become the hunted, the persecuted will prevail.

I'm just amazed that anyone ever doubts it. I'm really proud, in my small way, to have the chance to stand and be counted. It does not come to all of us.

Well done Mark. Spirits up Colleen! (We all get our down moments)

Pat Gardiner
go-self-sufficient.com

Originally from: mark purdey

Hi Colleen,

It depresses me that you are all so defeatist. Why let DEFRA get away with slaughtering many sheep flocks that are 3% plus scrapie susceptible when there is no scientific basis whatsoever for their actions. In fact, All of the science suggests the total opposite. So abit of lateral thinking, marshalling of the scientific evidence, and clubbing together of aggrieved sheep farmers should see the slaughter the ministry, and not your sheep.

We British people seem to lack belief in ourselves as individuals. We indocrinate ourselves that the government, the docter, the scientist is always right. This is a total myth that is born out of some inferiority that was acquired during schooling. As long as you stick to the truth, the power that the individual possesses is immense and limitless.

The entire scrapie slaughter policy is nothing to do with health and disease, but more to do with the agendas of the corporations that are puppetting governments to uphold their self centred masterplan for the global food futures market. DEFRA have totally betrayed us, but are very shaky and unsure over what they have been forced to carry out, since few of them actually believe in what they are doing right now. I have personal intelligence on this. An unstable bureaucracy is very insecure and easy to topple. Now is the time to hit them hard, again and again and again, until they are completely destroyed and obliterated. – before your sheep.

Best,

Mark Purdey.

Originally from: mark purdey

Dear All,

One glaringly obvious legal challenge to mount against DEFRA and their autocratic scrapie slaughter scheme could be based upon the following charge of negligence and maladministration.

The taxes of the British public paid out 25 million pounds to finance the recent Lord Phillip's BSE Inquiry – published October 2000. This Inquiry reached the decisive conclusion that scrapie had nothing to do with the cause of BSE.( However, because of the acute embarrassment suffered by many in high authority, this conclusion was conveniently obfuscated by many of the MAFF minders and their media spin docters in the national newspapers ) .

Despite these long awaited conclusions, DEFRA have chosen to blatantly ignore this advice, and autocratically uses another few billion of taxpayers money to launch their new scrapie slaughter programme on the 'scientific' basis that scrapie was the cause of BSE – eg; the total opposite of what they were told to do by the BSE Inquiry !! This reckless totalitarian misconduct constitutes a negligent and willful waste of taxpayers money. I remain amazed that none of the bodies that are pretending to represent the farmer's interests – like the NFU, or sheep groups, etc – are not picking up on this major bout of bureaucratic schizophrenia .

If DEFRA as much as attempt to enter my property to merely test our sheep , the inept ignoramuses will find themselves in the high courts before they have had time to get their boots on..I will sue both DEFRA as a government body, plus each individual uncivilised servant that enters our farm.

On another more personal point, the BSE Inquiry had also decreed that my research work should be funded , since their overall conclusion was that my work held merit. DEFRA responded by merely inviting me to put in for funding ( x2) but then, after one year of sitting on my application, they rejected it for a host of irrational and unscientific reasons.

Best,

Mark Purdey

Originally from: Ron

Thanks for this Mike,

Off it goes to the Shetland Group and FMDnew.

We must get a serious discussion going.

Cheers Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: ...
Originally from: <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] Re: BSE/Scrapie files
Dear All,
One glaringly obvious legal challenge to mount against DEFRA and their autocratic scrapie slaughter scheme could be based upon the following charge of
negligence and maladministration.
The taxes of the British public paid out 25 million pounds to finance the recent Lord Phillip's BSE Inquiry – published October 2000. This Inquiry reached
the decisive conclusion that scrapie had nothing to do with the cause of BSE.(
However, because of the acute embarrassment suffered by many in high authority, this conclusion was conveniently obfuscated by many of the MAFF minders and
their media spin docters in the national newspapers ) .
Despite these long awaited conclusions, DEFRA have chosen to blatantly ignore
this advice, and autocratically uses another few billion of taxpayers money to launch their new scrapie slaughter programme on the 'scientific' basis that
scrapie was the cause of BSE – eg; the total opposite of what they were told to do by the BSE Inquiry !! This reckless totalitarian misconduct constitutes
a negligent and willful waste of taxpayers money. I remain amazed that none of
the bodies that are pretending to represent the farmer's interests – like the
NFU, or sheep groups, etc – are not picking up on this major bout of bureaucratic schizophrenia .
If DEFRA as much as attempt to enter my property to merely test our sheep , the inept ignoramuses will find themselves in the high courts before they have
had time to get their boots on..I will sue both DEFRA as a government body, plus each individual uncivilised servant that enters our farm.
On another more personal point, the BSE Inquiry had also decreed that my research work should be funded , since their overall conclusion was that my work
held merit. DEFRA responded by merely inviting me to put in for funding ( x2)
but then, after one year of sitting on my application, they rejected it for a
host of irrational and unscientific reasons.
Best,
Mark Purdey
—If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking
To leave the group, email: ...

Originally from: Ron

New Readers, Please start at the bottom message and read them to the top.

Well we seem to have had some sensible discussion in the last 24 hours, but no input from any Breeder who has been involved with the Scrapie Testing. So I've tidied up the threads and will put it back on all three Groups to see if we can get any response from the Breeders. Up to now when ever I have mentioned Scrapie testing there seems to be a deafening hush from the Breeders.

Are you scared of Defra, do you agree with it, have you swallowed the so called scientific research or what are your reasons for not expressing an opinion. As a new Breeder I would like to know and I am sure the world-wide members of Farmtalking and FMDnew would like to know.

My views are coloured because we were affected by the madness of the Contiguous Cull, including the fact that my neighbours, against their will, were forced to give up the results of an hundred years bloodline.

For the record, in "British Sheep & Wool" Wiltshire Horn Sheep are described as 'A very distinctive and somewhat rare breed". It's lunacy to wipe any of them out on the basis of some very dubious research.

Ron.

----- Original Message -----
Do you know? I've really come to like Mark. I have absolutely no idea whether he is right or not, but I have eyeballed some of our top scientists. They are the kind of pathetic rubbish that would not get a job in a properly run shipping office, let alone be at the top of the Scientific Civil Service.
We have to rethink our appointment to and financing of veterinary science in the UK.
Mark is right. So long as you tell the truth, when you are flattened, you get up and go back at them, so they flatten you again, you get up again....ad infinitum
The liars and gong hunters will become the hunted, the persecuted will prevail.
I'm just amazed that anyone ever doubts it. I'm really proud, in my small way, to have the chance to stand and be counted. It does not come to all of us.
Well done Mark. Spirits up Colleen! (We all get our down moments)
Pat Gardiner
go-self-sufficient.com
Author wrote:
Hi Colleen,
It depresses me that you are all so defeatist. Why let DEFRA get away with
slaughtering many sheep flocks that are 3% plus scrapie susceptible when
there
is no scientific basis whatsoever for their actions. In fact, All of the
science suggests the total opposite. So abit of lateral thinking,
marshalling of the
scientific evidence, and clubbing together of aggrieved sheep farmers
should
see the slaughter the ministry, and not your sheep.
We British people seem to lack belief in ourselves as individuals. We
indocrinate ourselves that the government, the docter, the scientist is
always right.
This is a total myth that is born out of some inferiority that was
acquired
during schooling. As long as you stick to the truth, the power that the
individual possesses is immense and limitless.
The entire scrapie slaughter policy is nothing to do with health and
disease,
but more to do with the agendas of the corporations that are puppetting
governments to uphold their self centred masterplan for the global food
futures
market. DEFRA have totally betrayed us, but are very shaky and unsure over
what
they have been forced to carry out, since few of them actually believe in
what
they are doing right now. I have personal intelligence on this. An
unstable
bureaucracy is very insecure and easy to topple. Now is the time to hit
them
hard, again and again and again, until they are completely destroyed and
obliterated. – before your sheep.
Best,
Mark Purdey.
----- Original Message -----
I am afraid Ron, that we little people 'could never know what is happening in the REAL sheep World' we little people will always be outsiders'. It the dreaded day ever comes when they do decide to take your sheep, my sheep – it would give me NO pleasure to say 'well I did try to tell you so', to the keepers, breeders and enthusiastics of this breed .
We did not go to Carlisle this year – because the future does not look certain – does it? (we also knew you would be buying up the show Ron!!
Our Shetland sheep are 'beauties' not because they came from one of the top breeders in the Country, but because we love them for all of their traits and silly little ways. Some people need to realise that you cannot undo what DEFRA and their scientific advisers are propelling them towards . Waking up and crying afterward the event will be useless. Once gone – that's it. We seem to be sitting back and just waiting for the axe to fall.
Coleen
----- Original Message -----
Mary Critchley of Warmwell and I are good friends from the early days of The
Foot and Mouth Horror/Madness. She has sent me Muckscraper 20 November 2003.
I forward it to you with the following comment:-
Have we not learnt anything from Foot and Mouth when almost 12 Million
animals were slaughtered, of which less than 2 Million were supposed to be
infected. Where vets, government officials, police and the Services bullied
and lied their way through the Countryside. Where good and honest farmers
were reduced to physical wrecks, some have never fully recovered. There have been around 60 suicides. We are left with long term environmental pollution.
So you co-operate with inflicting further madness on the rural community!
What the hell is the point of us protecting an already limited gene pool for some lunatic to decide to reduce it even further by this mad scheme. Next year, with luck, we may have some first-class lambs. Especially as we have an excellent example of a Shetland Ram, he of the twice tested R1, plus DNA testing. Three of our ewes were 1st, 2nd and 4th in the Carlisle Show
last year. We are breeding for colour and quality.
My farmer friend who is a good sheep man chose those lambs last year without knowing anything about Shetlands and not realising that they had won in the Show. He sees our Flock every day and says that they are superb sheep.
If you do not believe that the whole scheme is madness visit www.mikepurdey.com and that is just part of it. The Schemes have been challenged by others.
I am truthfully already beginning to regret that we decided , late in our lives, to have our own flock of Pedigree Sheep. Our intention was to fight like hell if Defra turned up with another planned massacre. We did not think we would have to defend ourselves against the complacency of fellow breeders!
Ron.
----- Original Message -----
Here is Muckspreader
Muckspreader 20 november 2003
***
Phyllida Barstowe is not only an admired novelist and married to the
journalist Duff Hart-Davis, but professionally breeds Wiltshire Horn sheep
on their Gloucestershire farm. Until recently her flock roamed happily
over
the meadows round a fine young pure-bred ram. Then, on 1 September, she
was
visited by the department for the elimination of farming and rural affairs
(Defra), to test her sheep under the EU-sponsored 'National Scrapie Plan'.
To understand what happened next, some background is relevant. Defra, it
may
be remembered, has spent millions of pounds trying to establish a link
between scrapie, a brain disease affecting a tiny minority of sheep, and
BSE, a brain disease affecting a tiny minority of cattle. They haven't
actually found any link (although readers may recall the famous episode
when
they tested thousands of sheep's brains for two years, only to discover
they
had been looking at the brains of cows).
The reason for such excitement, of course, is that Defra still believes
there may be a link between BSE and vCJD, a brain disease affecting a tiny
minority of human beings. So, if they can prove a link between scrapie and
BSE, this would be a tremendous breakthrough, because it would show there
may be a link between eating sheep and CJD. They also believe that a tiny
minority of sheep are genetically susceptible to scrapie. They have
therefore taken this as justification, on EU orders, to test pedigree
sheep.
Any which do not have the 'scrapie-resistant genes', they can then order
to
be slaughtered or castrated.
Every step of Defra's tortuous logic is in fact based on a hypothesis for
which there is no proof. There is no proven link between eating cattle
infected with BSE and CJD (indeed this becomes ever more implausible).
There
is no evidence that any sheep has ever naturally become infected with BSE
There is no evidence that scrapie has ever infected humans. Even the
theory
about scrapie-resistant genes has been rubbished by one of the top
independent scientists in the field. Dr. Alan Dickenson. The whole of the
EU's scrapie eradication programme thus rests on a card-house of unproven
hypotheses.
When Defra tested the brains of 54,000 sheep from abattoirs, they did find
56 infected with scrapie. But no fewer than eight of these also possessed
their so-called 'scrapie resistant genotype'. Since this made total
nonsense
of their theory, they then carried out another test, which luckily came
out
with the result they were after: i.e. that only 28 of the sheep were
infected with scrapie, none of which had the resistant gene. 'At present
it
is not known if the cause of these findings' said Defra, 'is a flaw in the
methodology'. But, flawed methodology or not, the great thing was they
still
had the excuse they needed to kill any animal they could find without that
'resistant gene'.
All of which brings us back to Mrs Hart-Davis's Wiltshire Horn ram, Of
course it turned out to be the one animal in her flock without the
resistant
gene. So, although it was a perfectly healthy young sheep, off to the
slaughterhouse under EU rules it had to go – on the basis of four
different
hypotheses piled on top of each other, for not one of which there is any
proof a genuine scientist could accept. Mrs Hart-Davis was none too
pleased.
***************

Originally from: coleen

I tried and tried throughout fmd to get serious debate going on various newsgroup (not Shetland sheep as we did not own them then). If some of you remember I sent emails to many a newsgroup message board when the new SI was about to be dropped on us. I got people from several of these groups emailing smartgroups and reporting me for sending 'spam' as well as many many private abusive emails. People do not wish to have the truth laid bare before them.. I am afraid that people hold the view 'it will never happen to me'.

I am not a defeatest or feeling down with it all, I just refuse to keep bashing my head against a brick wall.

Unless the big breed Society's along with the unions come together and speak as 'one' and refuse through think and thin to partake in this ludicrous scheme then it we will be as with fmd, a few of us will protest and refuse them entry – but this time with absolutely nothing to back us up.

It makes my blood boil, that the papers can give space to the people who will defy any hunting bill, and probably get away with it, and yet if we try and refuse them to kill our healthy animals we WILL be arrested. This Country is absolutely barking mad.

Let me know any group you get things moving on Ron, I will add anything I can if it will help.

Coleen

----- Original Message -----
From: ...
Originally from: "Another Old Codger" <...> To: "Shetland Sheep Link" <...>; "Foot and Mouth Group" <...>; <...>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] Re: BSE/Scrapie files
Thanks for this Mike,
Off it goes to the Shetland Group and FMDnew.
We must get a serious discussion going.
Cheers Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] Re: BSE/Scrapie files
Dear All,
One glaringly obvious legal challenge to mount against DEFRA and their
autocratic scrapie slaughter scheme could be based upon the following
charge
of
negligence and maladministration.
The taxes of the British public paid out 25 million pounds to finance the
recent Lord Phillip's BSE Inquiry – published October 2000. This Inquiry
reached
the decisive conclusion that scrapie had nothing to do with the cause of
BSE.(
However, because of the acute embarrassment suffered by many in high
authority, this conclusion was conveniently obfuscated by many of the MAFF
minders and
their media spin docters in the national newspapers ) .
Despite these long awaited conclusions, DEFRA have chosen to blatantly
ignore
this advice, and autocratically uses another few billion of taxpayers
money
to launch their new scrapie slaughter programme on the 'scientific' basis
that
scrapie was the cause of BSE – eg; the total opposite of what they were
told
to do by the BSE Inquiry !! This reckless totalitarian misconduct
constitutes
a negligent and willful waste of taxpayers money. I remain amazed that
none
of
the bodies that are pretending to represent the farmer's interests – like
the
NFU, or sheep groups, etc – are not picking up on this major bout of
bureaucratic schizophrenia .
If DEFRA as much as attempt to enter my property to merely test our sheep
,
the inept ignoramuses will find themselves in the high courts before they
have
had time to get their boots on..I will sue both DEFRA as a government
body,
plus each individual uncivilised servant that enters our farm.
On another more personal point, the BSE Inquiry had also decreed that my
research work should be funded , since their overall conclusion was that
my
work
held merit. DEFRA responded by merely inviting me to put in for funding (
x2)
but then, after one year of sitting on my application, they rejected it
for
a
host of irrational and unscientific reasons.
Best,
Mark Purdey
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If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
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Originally from: Joyce

I'm afraid, Frances, that the bit about not selling untested rams so easily is true..... for the first year ever 2 of mine went to a mainland bidder and I suspect not for breeding. If I had realised who was bidding I would have taken them out of the ring. In past years the few I have not sold privately still stayed locally and in future they will, even if they end up as meat here! As in most places people are cutting down on sheep.
The biggest problems as I see them are – not everyone with sheep uses the internet yet, not many are keen to go against the flow of 'opinion' and too many vets are going to get paid to implement the scrapie policy. Added to that is the spin about rubbish info on the net because it is "not policed".... that last phrase is a quote from an intelligent young man..... all I can say is God help us if the thought police interfere any more!
Anyway onto something a bit positive.... I am now printing off some of the scrapie info to spread a bit of propaganda of my own!!!! – and we seem to have acquired a possible 4 years grace........
Joyce

Originally from: frances fish

Dear Coleen, you are echoing all that I have said for many years now, about lemmings hurtling on towards the cliff ! I felt I was a lone voice in the wilderness,so many were ready to go down the road of, we have to do this, we will not be able to sell our sheep, I will only keep R1 animals from now on etc.etc....................... If you went through the holocaust of 2001 and eventually emerged from the other end of the tunnel, the last thing you would care to contemplate is allowing these idiots on you land to have another go at murdering some more of your healthy sheep. The so-called "science" isn't just dubious,its criminal to call it science. Science is based on proven fact. The interpretation of Defra's NSP does not bear scrutiny, I can only assume that certain people have their collective heads buried in the sand, that way you are unable to see anything, therefore you cannot query any statement. I am a firm believer in knowledge being power, power to differentiate the truth from the lies and to make your own mind up. They would dearly like to take that power away as, to them , it is dangerous ( ask Pat ). I shall now descend from my soap-box before I fall off and go and put the kettle on. Incidently, all you that are against fluoride in drinking water, do you know how much there is in an ordinary cuppa ? I thought not ! Tally ho. Frances(that's for the hunting brigade, Coleen)

Originally from: coleen

Hi Joyce,

Good news Joyce – four years in the political climate we live in at the moment, is a 'life time'..

Did anyone else hear the BBC 4 news this morning about the glut of 'condemned and unfit meat that is being sold for human consumption and flooding the market. The police said they cannot keep up or police this growing business. They mentioned 'smokies' in Wales. Where an old sheep would normally fetch a £1 these were now being blow torched and sold for a £100.

Coleen

Col

Originally from: coleen

Dear Francis – well things could be moving on one of my groups, ways on how to stop 'spammers' posting to the group are being investigated. Perhaps these spammers, are really DEFRA in disguise, and they are trying to infiltrate the board. I think this is the most serious discussion for a long long time (I kid you not). Is it any wonder that the men in white suits get to do what they do, and the scientists well it's a jolly old free for all for them, isn't it?

I strongly believe that if you go around in ignorance, then at the end of the day when the axe does fall on you – you can in all honesty say 'why was I not told about this'? The fact that if you had of been, you would have done nothing about it, is neither here nor there.

Yes knowledge is power, but people seem to have a disliking for people who know more then them. Rather then go out and try and find out more themselves, they find it easier to write you off as a 'scare monger, or crank'. Which is fine sticks and stones etc etc. But, we need people to wake up and see this 'scientific rubbish for what it is, and what it will be used for'! Did we not write all of this during fmd.

I have to have my daily fix of tea Francis, fluoride included.One of life's little pleasures...

Coleen

Originally from: coleen

Hi Joyce,

Good news Joyce – four years in the political climate we live in at the moment, is a 'life time'..

Did anyone else hear the BBC 4 news this morning about the glut of 'condemned and unfit meat that is being sold for human consumption and flooding the market. The police said they cannot keep up or police this growing business. They mentioned 'smokies' in Wales. Where an old sheep would normally fetch a £1 these were now being blow torched and sold for a £100.

Coleen

Col