Re: - For your attention

Originally from: chris stockdale
                        
Hi Jane,

Thank you for your kind and generous words of encouragement.

Your suggestion, below, could indeed be very helpful, although I don't think that I could provide full coverage of all meeting contents for fear of breaching implicit confidentiality understandings. That apart, yes. At some point I hope to get an article into the Farming Press on updates and developments, the more pressure and feedback from like-minded people the better.

 If it's helpful I could add a page to Farmtalking to publish your message and or

reports of the meetings you have; including what is discussed and

I don't think DEFRA are paranoid about how the public perceive the risk from
FMD vaccination, they know full-well that the NFU whipped up this false
concern to suit their own ends, and are are now terribly concerned lest activists
were to ensure that farmers reaped the harvest the NFU so generously (and
foolishly) sowed on their behalf – supermarket aisles jammed with concerned
consumers attempting to ascertain the vaccination -free or otherwise
provenance of their food (just think -sausages, bacon, pies, tinned rice pudding, the
list goes on and on); the fact that just such a promise (not threat) has been
made straight into DEFRA HQ has focussed minds wonderfully.

My guess is that if we were told that vaccination would prevent the horrors
of 2001, there would be very few voices of dissent – I absolutely agree with
this -- this has to be one of our major 'selling points'.

Re open Govt – I think they do try; they have to juggle a huge range of
interests, some diametrically opposed to one another. Wresting workable and
re-electable compormises out of that, knowing that yah-boo politics is always
ready to jump on any fault, actual or perceived, must be very difficult, added to
which the extreme 'right' wing has the (dubious) political advantage of an
a-moral Nietzschean 'will to power' philosophy which will see no wrong in
doing anything to wrest power from what might actually be (or have started as )
the good guys; or perhaps I shouldn't grace Monsanto et al with anything as
profound as a Philosophy, perhaps just law of the jungle economics is enough.

Who was it that said, 'The truth will set you free'?

I don't know, but he probably wasn't a practising politician

As it is, they are so anxious to hang on to power they continue to cover-up
mistakes as best they can,

... of course they do, they believe that they are the best for the country, warts and all

hich in fact weakens their control and power base and fools no one who
takes an interest and follows their actions in certain fields.

Very few people seem bothered or have the time to bother. Even people who do 'care' dont bother. Whether this is due to economic grinding-down, screen -induced inertia or advanced fatalism I know not. Oh Brave New (Labour) World – please deliver the Soma direct to my door to maximise my time available for 'feelies'.

If only they realised that we all make mistakes and get things wrong! – even
Margaret Becket admitted they were 'only human' – but to apologise and try
to make amends for our mis-deeds is usually seen as a sign of strength and
much admired.

I think this is true on a personal basis but much harder for politicians; would apologies gain our respect- re FMD yes, perhaps a few thousand people would be impressed; millions (sorry Pat, baseless figures) would feel robbed and remember at the Polling Booth, reminded doubtless by Opposition -friendly Press.

On a personal note, of course I'm saddened by the fact that it's taking so
long for DEFRA/Government to adopt pen-side testing and vaccination, but I'm
certainly not depressed! Nor will I be while I know there are so many others,
like yourself, who are still beavering away as best they can in our cause.

Beavers get old and worn out, especially chipping away at a Mountain with a lump-hammer.

I may not appear to be as active an agitator as I was during 2001/2, I
simply have to devote more time to my work

I think this goes for all of us

but I have never abandoned my sense of optomism and hopefulness. I still
that 'a problem shared can be a problem solved' and will continue to
answer the phone and up-date Farmtalking when necessary.

All the best and thanks again!

Thank you Jane, and Mary (Warmwell), Mary Marshall, Bryn, Pat, Coleen and all who

are keeping the ball rolling towards ensuring the policies we so badly need
are delivered.

 Chris.
                        

Originally from: Farmtalking
                        
Hi Chris!

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Frances spotted this on the Guardian Unlimited site and thought you should see it.

Note from Frances:

Here we go again, they have their own species-specific TSE and they know it ! More money where its least needed Frances

To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk

Scientists to check whether deer can get BSE
James Meikle, health correspondent
Wednesday August 13 2003
The Guardian

Scientists are to feed and inject deer with BSE- infected tissue to establish whether they can contract the disease that ravaged Britain's cattle industry and is blamed for killing 133 Britons and fatally infecting six others.

These are the first such experiments on deer, of which there are thought to be nearly 1.1m, 17 years after the disease was identified in cows and seven after it was found to have spread to humans.

The lab tests, which could take several years to produce results, are being organised as concern mounts about the spread in deer and elk in the United States of a similar disease to BSE called chronic wasting disease (CWD), although there is no evidence that it too has infected people.

Carcasses and brains of wild and farmed deer, of which there are thought to be about 25,000 on 300 farms, are also soon likely to be tested for BSE, CWD or scrapie, a disease endemic in British sheep since the 18th century but never been linked to human fatalities.

However, one of the theories for BSE suggests scrapie jumped to cattle and became a far more virulent danger to people consuming their meat.

The laboratory tests, which will cost £1.5m over seven years, are being organised by the government's food standard and veterinary laboratory agencies and the Moredun research institute near Edinburgh, which is funded by government and international agencies.

They will involve 80 red deer some of which will be fed a large dose of BSE infected material later this year. Others will be injected in the brain, gut and bloodstream.

Tissues from 304 deer killed by hunters or in road accidents have been tested. No evidence of any BSE-like disease was found. But the European commission wants more structured, routine testing by member states, some on farms. The food agency has also been pressing for this. Details have yet to be agreed.

Government officials say no BSE-like disease has been reported in European deer under natural conditions.

Jane Emerson, of the British Deer Farmers Association, said no BSE-like diseases had been found in deer in this country. "Farmed deer, like sheep and cattle, undergo ante-mortem and post-mortem inspections at slaughter. "

The exact consumption of venison in Britain is unknown but is thought to be rising.

There are about 500,000 roe deer in Britain, 418,500 red deer, and 105,000 fallow deer. Three other species imported in the 19th and 20th centuries, the muntjac, sika and Chinese water deer, make up the numbers.

The United States is far further advanced in experimenting to find out whether its deer disease could spread to cattle. Injections of CWD into the brains of cattle have produced signs of damaged prions, the proteins thought responsible for such diseases.

But feeding CWD material to cattle has so far failed to infect them and deer have roamed freely near farmed cattle for years in the US without any signs of the disease having jumped.

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
                        

Originally from: Farmtalking
                        
I wonder if they've seen Mark's article about CWD ?

http://www.markpurdey.com/articles_thewastingland.htm

Originally from: Joyce
                        
"Injections of CWD into the brains of cattle have produced signs of damaged prions, the proteins thought responsible for such diseases."

As Bryn so succinctly put it...."what did they expect to find? Chickenpox? Joyce

Originally from: coleen
                        
Isn't Science wonderful? All those men and women, being paid to come up with that. They will try to have us believe that slaughtering is the only way to combat fmd next...ops sorry, they have already done that.

How about some research into the vanishing 'truth' gene of man. It is becoming an endangered species. Maybe those of us with this gene still intact should apply to the rare breeds survival trust for special protection. All we need is seventeen females and 1 male per household/farm (think that's about right) and we will be OK!

Coleen

Originally from: Joyce

Originally from: Burkie
                        
Dear Friends: Oh hell...I can't resist. Some if these University of Edinburgh scientists should all be crammed in a hole with a lid slammed on top and locked up forever. They have been a recurrent problem for how many years now? and how the heck much has it all cost to prove a theory of something that doesn't even exist? BSE Bull shit Exists ----something the scientists at the University of Edinburgh seem to be wallering around in all the time.

Burkie in Kansas

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Frances spotted this on the Guardian Unlimited site and thought you should see it.

Note from Frances:

Defra haven't latched onto this yet, perhaps they produce enough hot air themselves to be vulnerable ???

To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk

Farmers raise stink over New Zealand 'fart tax'
David Fickling, Australasia correspondent
Thursday September 04 2003
The Guardian

Farmers blocked the streets of New Zealand's capital, Wellington, yesterday in protest at plans to impose the world's first "fart tax" on livestock flatulence.

Nicknamed the "back-door tax", the levy is intended to fund research into reducing the 37m tonnes of methane blown off each year by New Zealand's sheep, cattle and deer. Four hundred farmers with 20 tractors rallied outside parliament. An opposition MP led a cow named Energy up the steps of the building.

"New Zealand farmers are completely unsubsidised, completely unprotected in a hugely distorted global market," said the president of Federated Farmers, Tom Lambie. "The imposition of this unnec essary levy is just another cost we shouldn't have to bear."

A petition against the policy – which is likely to cost the average farmer NZ$300 (£110) a year – has gained more than 64,000 signatures, equal to nearly half of all New Zealand farmers.

Despite the proposed levy being dubbed the "fart tax", more than 90% of livestock methane comes from burping, rather than flatulence.

Wind from New Zealand's 30m sheep, 10m cattle and 2m deer accounts for 60% of greenhouse gas emissions, well ahead of industries such as transport and electricity generation. The New Zealand government has demanded the levy to speed research into ways of cutting livestock emissions before the start of the compliance period for the Kyoto protocol in 2008.

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
                        

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Frances spotted this on the Guardian Unlimited site and thought you should see it.

Note from Frances:

Note th"Freudian?" slip on Defra,since corrected, answers on a postcard for where we wish this Department rerlocated ?

To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk

Plan to send ministers to the regions – permanently
Paul Brown, environment correspondent
Tuesday September 02 2003
The Guardian

Bold decisions to relocate entire government departments, such as the Home Office to Birmingham and the Ministry of Defence to Portsmouth or Plymouth, are needed if the government is to succeed in its policy of stopping the growing north-south divide, says a report published last night.

The 2001 census confirms that population continues to drift from regional cities to the south-east, where economic growth is higher. To reverse this trend, radical measures are required, says the thinktank Catalyst.

The report by three professors of geography says the government's proposal to move 20,000 of the country's 144,000 civil servants out of the south-east to the regions was merely tinkering with the problem. Instead, all ministries should be dispersed – including the ministers.

Moving the Home Office to Birmingham or Leicester, would bring the civil servants close to the multicultural areas whose problems they were trying to solve, argues the report.

This reasoning would take the Department of Environment, Fisheries and Food to Carlisle or Exeter, and the Department of Trade and Industry to the north-east where manufacturing has been neglected.

All the effort of the DTI in the 1990s had gone into fostering the "knowledge economy" which was concentrated in the south-east, while the problems of the regions were ignored.

To reverse this tendency the government has charged Sir Michael Lyons, professor of public policy at the University of Birmingham, to look at relocating civil servants to different parts of the country, but Ash Amin of Durham University, Doreen Massey of the Open University, and Nigel Thrift of Bristol University, say not only ministries but quangos, galleries, sports stadiums and international airports all need to be away from the south-east.

Professor Massey said: "This report may ruffle feathers in Whitehall but it is sensible, and do-able. Without it we will never have regional equality. Current policies are like spitting in the wind against the huge forces of centralisation.

"In many ways London and the south-east are the problem region. By paying extra wages to lure key workers to the area, the government was subsidising the congestion."

The report was used to launch the Royal Geographical Society's annual conference yesterday at which the first findings of the 2001 census will be analysed.

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
                        

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Frances spotted this on the Guardian Unlimited site and thought you should see it.

Note from Frances:

Interesting, we are what we eat though, even if some lacks taste.

To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk

Don't be fooled
Matthew Fort
Wednesday November 05 2003
The Guardian

I am biased. I have a small plot of land which I cultivate assiduously in the most organic manner possible.

Naturally, my carrots, peas, beans, potatoes, lettuces and tomatoes have a taste beyond compare, although whether it is because they are organic or just mine I am not too sure.

However, even my organic-as-can-be vegetables sometimes fail to deliver the flavour I expect from the man hours and manure matter put in, this year's swedes being a case in point.

And that's the trouble with organic produce as a whole. The high agricultural moral ground is no guarantee of gastronomic delight. Having been a judge at this year's Organic Food Awards I would go further, and say that there are some organic foods I would go a long way not to savour.

Some of the foods were terrific. Others were not. The fact that they were produced organically does not mean that they are inherently better from a cook's point of view.

Of course, it may well be better for you than comparable foods produced by conventional farming.

Remember when the government decided to issue health warnings on carrots a few years ago. We were instructed to peel them and cut two centimetres off the top and bottom because so many turned out to have levels of the chemicals needed to keep carrot enemies at bay they would have had Americans crying "weapons of mass destruction."

Indeed, it is debatable if organic food consumption would have achieved anything like its present levels if it had not been for the succession of agricultural scandals – BSE, listeria, salmonella, E coli, and foot and mouth.

However, even the relatively sluggish economy has not slowed the consumption of organic food, with its attendant higher prices, as some, including me, had forecast that it might.

So it seems reasonable to believe that organic food production still has a healthy future. £1bn is a lot of food, whichever way you look at it.

Having said that, we should bear in mind that something like 75% of organic food is bought by only 7% of shoppers; and even the Soil Association admits that we have a long way to go if we are to achieve the government's target of producing 70% of organic food in this country.

If you take a closer look at the organic food on supermarket shelves, it is remarkable how much of the £1bn worth is still sourced from abroad.

It's all very well trumpeting the sales of organic food, but how much of it actually originates in the UK?

Who sets the organic standards in Spain, Egypt or Kenya? And who enforces them? It is difficult to believe that the supermarkets will insist on standards which may have dire cost, and so sales, consequences.

Food flown in from points around the world still carries with it the same number of air miles, whether organic or not.

In the end the quality of food not only depends on the way in which it's grown, but on a whole complex inter-relationship of other factors – variety, weather, handling, distribution, and in the case of meat, husbandry, slaughter, hanging and the way it is butchered.

Selecting organic seed and animals, and raising them organically may be the start of the process, but it is by no means the end of it if you want the food you eat to have flavour to savour.

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
                        

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Frances spotted this on the Guardian Unlimited site and thought you should see it.

Note from Frances:

 See "World of Interiors " section. Hey, if the mountain?farm doesn't come to Mohammed ? Frances

To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk

Brighten up your city home with a rooftop farm
From: ...

Originally from the homes magazines
William Cederwell
Tuesday February 17 2004
The Guardian

Minimalism went out well before the millennium, but for those whose homes still resemble empty museum spaces, Livingetc (March) had some good advice. The latest interior design theme is "rock-star fantasies", the magazine noted, "a red-hot mix of louche elegance, luxe fabrics and sexy images". The bonus is that it works best when "set against a cool, simple backdrop", making it an easy way to update those passe 90s off-white lofts. To create "a rock god's lair", simply fill your home with red furniture and a "scene-stealing graphic image" – perhaps the very same giant portrait of Jim Morrison pictured in the magazine (a snip at £3,000). If you're on a budget, the "glam rock" version of the look is cheaper, but it does involve constructing your own "glittered panel", Blue Peter fashion, using MDF and silver spray paint. The panel looks "hip", apparently, when stuck on the living room wall, and can be used as a decorative frame for a mirror. And if you've got an old Scalextric set knocking about, think of it as a "fun accessory". Set it up on the floor around your dining table to amuse your guests.

But before saying goodbye to bare white walls, "it's essential you understand the impact different colours have", cautioned BBC Good Homes (March) It's no good painting the dining room turquoise, for instance, even if it is your favourite colour – turquoise is too "invigor ating" and "uplifting" and so goes better in the bathroom. And don't ignore pink on the grounds that it's too "girly"; it actually aids relaxation and should be tried in the bedroom. Of course, green is "the big colour this spring", the magazine revealed, but don't ruin the effect by choosing the wrong shade. Only "calm" blue-greens and "fresh" yellow-greens will do, although these should be confined to kitchens, living rooms and – for those luckier readers – the conservatory.

World of Interiors (March) had more rarefied concerns than matching colours to different rooms. Instead, it offered a solution to those who want to combine urban with rural life. The magazine featured an Antwerp couple who have "recreated the countryside in the city" by installing a farm on their roof, complete with "outbuildings, pasture, kitchen garden and orchard". Instead of "an unremarkable swimming pool or solarium" – or even a more prosaic barbecue – the roof is home to sheep, ducks, and pheasants. The fittings comprise a mix of "old materials", including a gate, a beehive and some millstones. "Each component has something of the soul of the village in which it was found," the magazine eulogised. "The effect, entirely manufactured, is of the decor having been there forever."

But if herding sheep and fowl on to your roof is too much of a palaver, there is another option for those who are fed up with city life. Why not swap it for somewhere quieter? You may want to consider Brighton, particularly after reading House & Garden (March). It showed off the house of an art dealer who decamped from London to the seaside two years ago. His house, which doubles as a gallery, is the "grandest surviving" town-house in Brunswick Square, Brighton's "masterpiece of urban architectural planning", laid out in 1824. The "big, stucco-fronted" homes on the square and surrounding terraces "are all characterised by fine classical detailing, high ceilings, and tall windows with elaborate ironwork balconies".

The interiors of Brighton's best Regency houses were designed for "parade and architectural show" and typically have "a grand pillared entrance-hall" and "gracefully sweeping staircase". But the Regency developers never forgot that Brighton was all about the view. The Brunswick Square house is just "one room deep", which means that every room looks out toward the sea.

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
                        

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Frances spotted this on the Guardian Unlimited site and thought you should see it.

Note from Frances:

 See "World of Interiors " section. Hey, if the mountain?farm doesn't come to Mohammed ? Frances

To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk

Brighten up your city home with a rooftop farm
From: ...

Originally from the homes magazines
William Cederwell
Tuesday February 17 2004
The Guardian

Minimalism went out well before the millennium, but for those whose homes still resemble empty museum spaces, Livingetc (March) had some good advice. The latest interior design theme is "rock-star fantasies", the magazine noted, "a red-hot mix of louche elegance, luxe fabrics and sexy images". The bonus is that it works best when "set against a cool, simple backdrop", making it an easy way to update those passe 90s off-white lofts. To create "a rock god's lair", simply fill your home with red furniture and a "scene-stealing graphic image" – perhaps the very same giant portrait of Jim Morrison pictured in the magazine (a snip at £3,000). If you're on a budget, the "glam rock" version of the look is cheaper, but it does involve constructing your own "glittered panel", Blue Peter fashion, using MDF and silver spray paint. The panel looks "hip", apparently, when stuck on the living room wall, and can be used as a decorative frame for a mirror. And if you've got an old Scalextric set knocking about, think of it as a "fun accessory". Set it up on the floor around your dining table to amuse your guests.

But before saying goodbye to bare white walls, "it's essential you understand the impact different colours have", cautioned BBC Good Homes (March) It's no good painting the dining room turquoise, for instance, even if it is your favourite colour – turquoise is too "invigor ating" and "uplifting" and so goes better in the bathroom. And don't ignore pink on the grounds that it's too "girly"; it actually aids relaxation and should be tried in the bedroom. Of course, green is "the big colour this spring", the magazine revealed, but don't ruin the effect by choosing the wrong shade. Only "calm" blue-greens and "fresh" yellow-greens will do, although these should be confined to kitchens, living rooms and – for those luckier readers – the conservatory.

World of Interiors (March) had more rarefied concerns than matching colours to different rooms. Instead, it offered a solution to those who want to combine urban with rural life. The magazine featured an Antwerp couple who have "recreated the countryside in the city" by installing a farm on their roof, complete with "outbuildings, pasture, kitchen garden and orchard". Instead of "an unremarkable swimming pool or solarium" – or even a more prosaic barbecue – the roof is home to sheep, ducks, and pheasants. The fittings comprise a mix of "old materials", including a gate, a beehive and some millstones. "Each component has something of the soul of the village in which it was found," the magazine eulogised. "The effect, entirely manufactured, is of the decor having been there forever."

But if herding sheep and fowl on to your roof is too much of a palaver, there is another option for those who are fed up with city life. Why not swap it for somewhere quieter? You may want to consider Brighton, particularly after reading House & Garden (March). It showed off the house of an art dealer who decamped from London to the seaside two years ago. His house, which doubles as a gallery, is the "grandest surviving" town-house in Brunswick Square, Brighton's "masterpiece of urban architectural planning", laid out in 1824. The "big, stucco-fronted" homes on the square and surrounding terraces "are all characterised by fine classical detailing, high ceilings, and tall windows with elaborate ironwork balconies".

The interiors of Brighton's best Regency houses were designed for "parade and architectural show" and typically have "a grand pillared entrance-hall" and "gracefully sweeping staircase". But the Regency developers never forgot that Brighton was all about the view. The Brunswick Square house is just "one room deep", which means that every room looks out toward the sea.

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
                        

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Frances spotted this on the Guardian Unlimited site and thought you should see it.

Note from Frances:

This is classical "Delhi"( ? ) technique. Consultation, conversion of opposition(if possible), followed by implimentation willy-nilly ! Does anyone know where that particular expression came from ? Frances

To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk

Spinning the science
Thursday February 19 2004
The Guardian

The Five Year Freeze was launched in February 1999 to give a platform to groups concerned at how little was known about the impacts of agricultural biotechnology (GM crops to get go-ahead, February 19). Five years on, many of the questions we wanted to be addressed in the period of a moratorium remain unanswered. How will the public's right to choose to eat GM-free food be maintained? Who will pay for damage, both economic or environmental, that may occur? What will the real repercussions of a global GM trade be for small farmers both here and in developing countries?

We remain deeply concerned that the serious issue of hunger in developing countries is constantly used as an excuse to commercialise GM crops in Europe, while so many commentators acknowledge that GM crops cannot "feed the world".

We remain sceptical about the use of GM crops as long as the supposed benefits fail to outweigh the tangible risks. It is foolhardy for the government to ignore public concerns and proceed on the strength of decisions based on flawed evidence, then expect to win over the public through spin and presentation.
 Clare Devereux
 Five Year Freeze campaign

The leaked papers make it clear the government is still swallowing the PR of the GM lobby that theirs is the only unbiased and relevant science. The PR is all about science and, more and more implausibly, feeding the world. The reality includes the pushing of large volumes of their expensive pesticides and herbicides. What about the sciences concerned with river and sea pollution, of sustainable agriculture, of biodiversity and ecology?
 Peter Draper
 London

Why so coy on the GM maize results (Why GM-free UK is popular but unfeasible, February 19), which showed a slight advantage to the

environment of GM? Perhaps because Atrazine, the herbicide used on the conventional maize, is so toxic it is soon to banned. The science is fundamentally flawed. The scientific trial is not comparing like with like. There is no solid scientific argument in favour of GM maize.
 Keir Mottram
 London

Atrazine disrupts hormones, gets into rivers and aquifers. GM Liberty maize allowed US farmers to stop using atrazine. But weeds developed resistance to the Liberty herbicide and GM Liberty Atz is now used – maize with atrazine in every cell.
 James Bruges
 Bristol

It is disingenuous to argue that GM technology is being promoted to support developing countries. Not long ago, consumer leaders from 20 African countries issued the Lusaka declaration, which clearly rejects GM technology as a solution for food security in Africa. What is it about the word "no" that this government doesn't understand?
 Caroline Lucas MEP
 Green, SE England

We went to war in Iraq because a government listened to the experts. Foot and mouth devastated the countryside because they listened to the experts. The school system is in chaos because they listen to experts. Experts told us BSE couldn't jump species. Experts tell us GM crops are safe. Feeling confident?
 Michael Brown
 London

The leaked paper claims: "Opposition might eventually be worn down by solid, authoritative scientific argument." Wasn't there a similar line in the Iraqi dossier? It's not the nuclear button we need to worry about – it's the cut and paste key.
 Keith Conlon
 London

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
                        

Originally from: PoppaC
                        
Hi Frances

Why don't we tell it like it is?

The fools are advising the fools because the original fools have been paid big bucks by the fools that created the GM rubbish in the first place.

Hoo Roo

Norm