Apathy ?

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Dear Jane, Personal thank you for deleting inappropriate posts on this site, get enough elsewhere, very irritating. But, what is happening to everyone, there are so few postings? There is plenty to comment on lately, e.g. Non appearance of the infamous WMD, BSE found in Canada, the governments backing away from a subsidised Fallen stock collection scheme (are they just teasing us, wishing to panic people into signing up ?) Where is Burkie, does this not affect him, has he ridden off into the sunset ? Where is Bill, has he no comments to make on the Canadian cow ? The most interesting snippet I came across was the imminent Cabinet re- shuffle, it is rumoured that we may lose the astoundingly disinterested in rural affairs minister, Margaret Becket !! Many will say, not before time, few will regret her loss (will we notice ?), she, herself, will heave a sigh of relief, no doubt. To date, just a rumour, one can still dream and hope............BUT, who will replace the lady of the green wellies,who could fill her boots ? I know what I would like to fill her boots with but then her departments full of that already and the bull may be busy doing other things ! Come on, you lot, wake up do "from this downy sleep, death's counterfeit " (sorry Shakespeare ). Frances

Originally from: Farmtalking
                        
Hi Francis!

As no members have unsubscribed I think they're all still there and doubtless reading the posts if not commenting on them!

Of course it may be that as we seem to be enjoying a pretty good summer as far as the weather is concerned, Bill et al. may be very busy in their gardens! I know I should be!

At the same time there is still a great deal to be concerned about as far as agriculture in the UK is concerned and I don't think our members are apathetic even if we all get a little tired at times! None of us have missed the fact DEFRA and the Govt in general have so far failed to mend their ways as regards honesty and information is concerned!

The on-farm burial ban being just one recent example. Their proposal to set up a disposal scheme if farmers paid an annual fee according to acreage and if enough farmers were prepared to join has suddenly been withdrawn. The reason they give being lack of support from farmers. Very convenient for them as they/the tax-payer now won't have to foot the bill but quite unreasonable in truth, as they failed in so many instances to let farmers know the proposal existed and actively solicit their support.

We have all experienced how abysmal are the communication skills of this department and they have not noticeably improved despite many polite entreaties to do so!

Much as we would like to believe their intentions are good and the promises made will be adhered to, we see little or no evidence of it.

I know its boring, but we all remember the Govt's refusal to hold an open public inquiry into FMD. Their alternative being to set up their own Inquiries which they said would report more quickly than a public one and they promised to act on their recommendations. The Inquiries were quick and the recommendations delivered but for the most part we're still waiting for the action!

It is interesting to note that they were quick to amend the Animal Health Act with draconian legislation giving the Minister rights to slaughter and removing the right of farmers to challenge the decision through the Courts. A measure entirely of their own making and not recommended by any of their Inquiries.

The Govt's recent experience in Afghanistan when they offered to pay farmers handsomely not to grow opium has backfired on them. The farmers, not surprisingly, took advanage of the scheme and claimed for greater acreages than they grew! Of course when our Governement dropped the price per acre it caused all sorts of jealousies and trouble in the area and our Govt has bacome a laughing stock. Further evidence that they fail to learn from their mistakes! Remember the high prices paid for livestock during FMD and the trouble it caused when the prices dropped?

It would all be amusing if it weren't so tragic.

The democratic Government we all believed in, exported to various parts of the world and took such pride in, is dying before our eyes. It is evolving into dictatorship and dissenting voices are being silenced and eliminated.

The British Government has gone into partnership with the Europe & the US and if it suits them ignors the wishes of the population, their own enquiries and the United Nations. It is obvious they believe they're right and acting in the best interests of the country. Some may say they are, the world order is changing, government has always evolved and we should go along with it and accept the changes. Only time will prove them right or wrong but....

Rules and Laws have to 'work' to be obeyed. If they are proved to be a nonsense they may not be removed from the statutes but they will certainly be ignored!

It is still British law that 'a man may beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb' but the laws against GBH tend to curtail this legality!

If no alternative to on farm burial is provided by the State and the personal costs for legal disposal prove too hard to bear, I can see the legislation being ignored in future. Of course there may be heavy fines and even imprisonment for a few who defy the law initially, but the end result will either be a State funded disposal system or acceptance that the law doesn't 'work' and on farm burial will survive and continue to be the efficient disposal sytem it has been for many years.

Only time will tell and as usual – I could be wrong!

Have a good day!

Jane – Farmtalking

Originally from: Pat Gardiner
                        
Don't worry Frances!

There will be plenty of activity when the media pick up on the connection between the flood of complaints about foot and mouth and the so called Iraq "Dodgy Dossier."

I quote from The Times – "http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,542–570044,00.html

"Apart from a former
foot-and-mouth specialist from the old Min of Ag (chosen because he once worked on botulism), two work-experience students from Keele and a filing clerk, doubling as a liaison officer, spin was thin on the ground. "Well, one of you had better put something together. Get on the internet. Just type in ricin and Iraq and see what you find on Google. 20 pages, at least. By tomorrow."

I kicked up blue murder about faking and threats during Swine Fever.

You hauled some of them before the RCVS disciplinary committee during FMD.

Nobody listened. They were left to carry on faking. So we went to war based on faked documents.

Anyway, I always read every contribution, waiting for the penny to drop on a wider basis.

Regards
Pat Gardiner
http://www.go-self-sufficient.com/

Originally from: chris stockdale
                        
Hi Frances, Jane et al,

You have heard little or nothing from me for a while – great weather and fatigue have both had a part in this.

I completed my Dissertation for my MSc at the Royal Agricultural College recently, but sadly am not allowed to place it in the public domain until the College have placed it in their Library -- which could be next spring! The title was lengthy and neccessarily academic but it was esentially a review of the management of the 2001 FMD (fiasco) focussing on the Contingency Plans, then and now.

I am presently trying to ascertain how long I will have to wait as this represents the best part of two years work and I feel that it should be in the public domain as soon as possible, being a genuinely independant review with recommendations I hope to be acting upon, including transparency in Stakeholder Communication and 'Innovation Monitoring'. Excessive delay will partially invalidate it, in which case I will have to rewrite a nonacademic precis for immediate use.

I have also been trying to (formulate a policy to) turn the farm round and get back on top of the job which is now underway, and have been working off-farm (but within the Total-Food Chain) for financial reasons .

Tomorrow (Monday), I am pleased to say, I will be attending DEFRA's FMD Stakeholders Communications sub-group, the inaugural meeting of a very small group, a push-me/pull-you bunch which already has an interesting History, being a hybrid between what DEFRA want and what Stakeholders want (and only attained, my seat on it in particular, after hard 'negotiating' – strange as I had proposed and founded it); time will tell whether this compromise will be useful. My hope (obviously) is that it will, common ground being in finding ways to communicate the acceptibility of the use of FMD vaccines to the public.

What will stick in my craw is having to communicate the requirements of the AHA, ie the 10km or greater clean animal firebreak cull. To quote the Sunday Times Editorial of today,(8/6/03) "The Prime Minister has conceded an investigation by the intelligence and security committee but it is unlikely to bite the Downing Street hand that appoints it" – a quote I would have borrowed wholesale had it been written a month ago to summarise the liklihood that the Anderson (Lessons Learnes Inquiry) Report, excellent in many ways, would find the Prime Ministers' fingerprints on the order to commence the Contiguous and 3-km culls – both of which, analysis reveals, were epidemiologically unneccesary but politically expedient.

Anderson did in fact comment on the absence of records of decisions around that time, proposed all such should be minuted in future (implemented in DEFRA's Version 3 Contingency Plans), but denied any suggestion of a political influence or agenda on the proceedings.How he drew this conclusion is unclear- I would have thought the absence of evidence would call for an 'open verdict', but then would he savage his friend and paymaster the PM?

Will Iraq see Blair off? I don't know. The paralells in duplicity are cause for further ennui amongst those of us who experienced it in 2001 -- having our 'projects' thrown on the fire for the greater good of Tonys' second term ; perhaps more of a shock to those who did not or would not see or hear what was happening around them then.

That said, who is there to replace him, and perhaps more to the point, how have we let ourselves get into the situation where the chiefs of some MNC's in the USA (Builders R' us) dictate global policy for their own personal benefit whichever shade of Government we elect. Of course, we haven't tried Green yet!

Hope your 'Hearts...' Rubbish (recycling) Day was good Jane, I'm sure that it was. Back to the garden for the last few hours,

 best wishes, Chris.
                        

Originally from: Burkie
                        
Dear Frances and everyone:

Certainly no apathy from me!.....just haven't been able to do the research and share as I used to. The old adage, "making hay while the sun shines" applies to my personal situation, right now....so my days are very busy and I've got more than enough to do. Am also trying to change internet services...and telephone situation....but still get e-mail from all of you at the same address as before, for the time being.

Shoulder is finally nearly back to normal...and it's good to be out in the weather, working again.

Aside from that, I honestly am a little disappointed in the way DEFRA and the UK Labor government has dealt with all your agricultural issues, and being here in the States, realize that all my jumping up and down would not, could not affect much positive change for your situation. However, from my past participation, I do feel better-informed, more aware than ever, that our situation regarding farming, agriculture, and food production has been influenced by the events taking place in the UK and Europe with regards to government regulations and policy-setting....with the actual producers losing any say in the ways and means those policies have been formed and set in place.

That scares the heck out of me....as I see carry-over happening here in the U.S., too.

On the positive, some of our grocers are now printing the guarantee that their beef, pork and lamb are all U.S. produced and processed. Repeat: SOME are doing it...so that is progress.

Also, we do now have definite contingency plans developed for our states, in the event of a similar FMD outbreak....which was not in effect, two years ago.

Just remember, we've all spent alot of time, work and effort, to share the information we've traded on this and the other sites.

We've come to respect and appreciate the efforts of all other members of these Smartgroups....and alot of really wonderful friendships have developed.

So let's look at things like Jerry Lewis said the other day, "Look at things from the other person's point of view, and strive to make things good for each other."

I kinda liked what he had to say.

All the Best to all of you,

Burkie in Kansas

Originally from: Farmtalking
                        
Hi Chris!

So good to hear from you and Bill and Brent! Francis has really 'stirred our stumps' hasn't she? but it's so good to catch up with the news.

It's great to know you've finished your MSc dissertation, well done! What a lot of hard work and how very worthwhile but a shame we'll have to wait so long for it!

Hope all is going well with the plans for the farm at least at the moment the weather seems to be on our side!

I'm hoping to get a report from Heart of Galloway re their re-cycling event and will publish it on Farmtalking asap.

Take care and best wishes to you and to all! – Jane

Originally from: Farmtalking
                        
Hi Gary!

It's good to hear from you and Pat Gardiner, although I know Pat is a very active correspondant on Alan Beat's 'Smallholders Newsletter' as well!

I had never believed either of you were 'apathetic' and I'm sure Francis didn't either!

It's good to know your shoulder is much improved and like most of us you're doing your best to earn a crust!

We have really appreciated your support and you know you can count on ours for you!

Just a small note that may be of interest to you and others cncerning our 'On farm burial ban'.

I was talking to a farmer this afternoon who was shocked to learn that DEFRA had withdrawn their proposed disposal scheme as not enough farmers had signed up to accept it.

I was told they had received a letter from DEFRA approximately five weeks ago, which they knew contained info about the scheme but were comletely unaware of the fact that they should have replied and expressed an interest in joining.

I was tld, and of couse know it to be a fact that they receive so many letters and docs from DEFRA and others that it's really hard to find the time on a busy farm to sort it all out and react to the essentials.

Not every farmer can afford to employ a full-time secretary who will go through it all and ensure that replies are made within a given time-scale.

Even those farmers, like the one I spoke to, who have the benefit of the internet, are unlikely to pour over the DEFRA website for the latest info at this, or any time of year, for that matter. So, unless a local representative, and there are none of those to my knowledge, chases up replies to such docs, the farmers all miss the opportunity. Perhaps that's just what the Govt wants them to do anyway!

On this particular farm they would have far rather paid the suggested subscription to the scheme rather than foot the costs for disposal themselves as they will now have to do.

At the same time, I was told that as far as they can see the legislation is completely unworkable and carting dead anmals all over the countryside – From this area it's across the Country to St Boswells where they will be collected and taken to Dumfries for incineration, is complete madness! An excellent way to spread disease if its around!

There is apprently one other problem associated with this matter. Responsible farmers, as these are, naturally would like their vet to conduct a Post Mortem if an animal dies, but only complete animals are accepted for incineration.

Therefore a PM immediately following death cannot be conducted 'on farm'. The alternative is to request a PM on arrival at the incinerating station. However, dead animals, having travelled to St Boswells and laid around there before being carted on to Dumfries, will certainly not be in a fit state for PM in the summer months, if at all!

I give up! For now anyway!

Best wishes – jane