Horse Passports

Originally from: mona parr
                        
More information from British Equestrian Federation

Passports Working Group – Items for Consideration
Passports Working Group – Notes
Passports Working Group – Comments on Statutory Instrument

http://www.bef.co.uk/prog/fspassports.htm
                        

Originally from: Burkie
                        
Dear Mona: I honestly believe the EU intends to abuse its regulatory authority in any manner possible to eradicate any living thing in the U.K. What beats me, is why you let them do this to you folks. Having accessed your website and reading briefly the proposed plan to identify all horses in the U.K., simply put, is "nuts."

Good God, why are you putting up with this non-sense?

Burkie in Kansas

Originally from: Hilary Peters
                        
Dear Burkie,

Do we have a choice?
How can we not put up with it?

Hilary

Originally from: mona parr
                        
Cant afford not to Burkie--our horses are out and about-therefore likely to get checked and DEFRA could catch up with you at the end of their days, as whoever disposes of horse will need passport. Hopefully it could prevent stolen horses being slaughtered for meat/being resold and horses aged 13 being sold as 7 year olds etc (both those ages have hooks on corner teeth) I do have some doubts as to whether it will work with 50+ organisations selling passports, A number of riding schools said they would not buy them before the penalties were announced. I expect they will have changed their minds. The charity ILPH considers it a waste of time and money without microchipping every horse--racehorses are 'chipped' as foals.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/horsepassports/qanda.htm

A25. The Food Standards Agency will be responsible for enforcing the checks carried out at slaughterhouses, and the Local Authorities (e.g. Trading Standards Departments) will be responsible for enforcing the remainder of the legislation. As with all Government legislation, there are penalties that can be applied by the courts for non-compliance. These are: – a fine to a maximum of £5000 for cases involving one to ten animals and a maximum fine of £1000 per animal for cases involving more than ten animals. Second offences can lead to a maximum of one month's imprisonment.
                        

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Dear Mona, Don't know whether you do keep other stock, sheep, cattle ? We have to deal with passports for the cattle only(so far ). We have made similar comments, in that if a cow dies you could keep the paperwork and attribute it elsewhere, no system is perfect and the cattle system is VERY far from that, riddled with errors and wide open to abuse. Well thought out, as is so much of Defra's handiwork ! As regards the medecines, we have to keep a record of all medecines given and the vet can(and does) ask to see this, as can the trading standards officer who occasionally pays us a visit (he only lives down the road and also keeps sheep ). I'm afraid that horse owners are getting sucked into the black hole of burocracy same as the rest of us, its just taken a little longer, that's all. You learn to live with these minor inconveniences and, as usual, if people do not see a need for a certain rule or law, or they see a loophole....well, human nature being as it is, I leave it to your imagination !I would have thought there is more of a concern about the sweeping powers this government gave itself with the Animal Death Bill, horses, cats, dogs, anything can be killed if the minister considers them a risk. How about domestic cats and SARS ? Let's hope not, but they can now do this quite legally. P.S. O/T Try looking up Sourhope Experimental Farm on Google, there is an intersting article which it doesn't seem to want to give me on the connection of Sourhope with "infected premises " Maybe nothing, chasing shadows ? Did you find the article by Ian Gurney on UK Pharmaceutical Co."Economical with the Truth" about vacine tests ? Frances

Originally from: coleen
                        
And, yet Francis there are people who regularly bring drugs into the UK from Ireland and inject their own animals, as cats and dogs, as well as livestock and not a thing is done about these people, even when the evidence is placed before them. Not talking small time here either.

You are right any system is as corrupt as the people who can work out ways to abuse it, and there will always be those. Systems are put into place before they are given any real thought or trial runs put into place to see if they will work. Then we are left trying with a woefully inadequate peace of legislation that helps know one, accept the people who ride rough shot over it all.

Coleen

Originally from: mona parr
                        
Hi Frances
If having horse passports does cut down on theft, does stop stolen horses being slaughtered, does stop people being 'conned' about the age of a horse then I have no problem with it BUT the crooks will find ways round it and I still dont see how travellers will be persuaded to buy them---a Gypsy Cob registration has been set up.
 As you say DEFRA will know where the horses are when the database is set up, it can only be a matter of time for some dreaded disease to be imported. The EHV outbreak this spring caused chaos at a number of yards but prompted little reaction from DEFRA.
Horse theft is huge this year with 9 donkeys and one pony stolen in the last week, double last years numbers now. Most of those stolen are described as friendly and trusting.
2 of the above donkeys had foals which were not stolen. Is this the thieves getting in before the passports???
I cant see it working when so many organisations are selling them--there is huge confusion in the horse world even those who own horses say they only know about it because they read Horse Forums on the net and often do not know which to choose.
Mona
                        

Originally from: coleen
                        
Hi Mona,

Not horses, but along the lines of stolen animals. Some fifty thousand dogs a year go missing most stolen in this Country. Many never to be re-united with their owners. There is a mass market of stolen to order for markets overseas. Organised gangs work areas targeting the dogs.

I am not sure how they get these dogs out of the Country, but they do. What about the horses that are stolen, are they sent abroad? I was speaking to someone who visits auctions and horse sales looking for stolen horses (the sales that appear out of nowhere on some desolate hill side) she told me that dogs as well as horses get traded as these places, and stolen dogs have been found for sale. So do the people who steal the horses also steal the dogs? I would say yes in some cases.

I cannot see any passport stopping the trade in stolen horses within the UK, not when they go from dodgy dealer to dealer. Many of the stolen dogs are microchipped but that does not stop them being pinched. People are very good at providing false paperwork also. The Gypsy will not do any registering with ALL the horses they own will they? So how can anyone tell what they do and do not own.

Coleen

Originally from: mona parr
                        
Hi Coleen
The person you met is doing a dangerous job--lots of unsavoury characters out there
I wonder how she/he gets to know about these informal sales
Horses were targetted in Kilmarnock just before Appleby but owners dogs woke her--people were riding horses away bareback but turned when she called them--thieves legged it. Suspect some go abroad via Ireland even. The only ones to be returned this year have been dumped as they were freezemarked.
Didnt realise so many dogs go missing
Doesnt get a lot of publicity
Mona
                        

Originally from: coleen
                        
Hi Mona

I believe they have good working connections with the RSPCA and also visit local horse auctions and pick up on the 'buzz' They keep a low profile, and have worked their way into the 'in' crowd. Also they get contacted by people who scan the local papers and pick up when one of the sales is going down. You have to know what you are looking for though, so I was told. It is not advertised as what it is. When you get there, dogs, puppies and horses galore being traded and some in dreadful conditions. The Welsh Borders and Worcestershire to name but a few areas of where these sales are common. They are well visited, so the word must get out.

Yes Ireland would fit the pattern, so many animals there, puppy farming, the trade in keeping exotic animals, horse trading and dealing would fit in well.

The missing dogs bureau have been collecting information regarding stolen dogs from around the Country, they say that 50 thousand is probably low. Information is very fragmented and difficult to collect, lets face it stolen dogs are not a high priority. When I spoke to them last Border Collies were being targeted.

Most dogs thefts, (by that I mean when a large number of dogs go from one area over a small amount of time) do seem to coincide, with the travelling fraternity having been in the area. Some people have even had to pay to get their dog back from these people. So they steal them, to sell them back to you. Why not go to the Police? Well if they saw the Police arriving, I guess you would never see your dog again.

Horse passports, micro chipping, whatever will not stop this misery and suffering.

Coleen