OT/IRAQ: IT'S ABOUT POWER, NOT DEMOCRACY

Originally from: brentns
                        
Now, I have no love for Saddam's sinister, brutal regime. The last time I was in Baghdad, late 1990, the Iraqi secret police threatened to hang me as a spy after I discovered a group of British technicians and scientists who had been secretly sent by the British government to produce anthrax and other germ weapons for Iraq to use against Iran.

But what I dislike even more than Saddam's nasty regime are government lies and propaganda. Since 9/11, North Americans have been subjected to the most intense propaganda campaign from their government since World War II. Much of the mainstream US media has been intimidated by the Administration into unquestioningly amplifying its party line, or, in the worst tradition of yellow, jingoist journalism, it acts as cheerleaders for war. I am reminded of the sycophantic Soviet media during the days of Chairman Leonid Brezhnev. http://www.bigeye.com/foreignc.htm

Originally from: David Burnett
                        
To understand anything at all, first we must realise that 9/11 was a successful coup d'etat. The Republic of the United States of America was overthrown.

Now there is only a one-party police state. No Constitution or Bill of Rights, no freedom of speech, travel or asssociation. Wear a "Peace" slogan tee-shirt or make a joke about "Terror" and you go to prison. Be careful what you say.

Most of this was evident from the start.
Ave atque Vale USA.
David in Wimborne.
                        

Originally from: Ron
                        
I hope you were not surprised at what you discovered in Iraq, Brent. You may remember that a well known British chemicals and explosive manufacturer was supplying Nazi Germany, via a subsidiary in a neutral country. Folker Wolfe was American owned until shortly before the USA declared war on Germany. I think it is true the American company received compensation from the American Government because the FW factories were destroyed by the US Air Force. This was because of some facet of American law. The story is a bit elderly now, it will be in the Archives somewhere. I understand that there are many more such stories.

Where did the USA get almost all it's rocket science, chemical and biological science from? It was from the many German/European and Japanese scientists who were 'persuaded' ?? to move to the States after the War.

There has never been an answer to the question of what happened to the records of the evil experiments carried out by the Germans and the Japanese. Those experiments resulted in the unbelievable suffering and death of many thousands of human beings, especially Jews and Chinese. Most of the records were taken to the States.

That's why I am a cynical, sad old B', Ron.

Originally from: brentns
                        

Subject: Re: [farmtalking] OT/IRAQ: IT'S ABOUT POWER, NOT DEMOCRACY
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:47:16 EST

To understand anything at all, first we must realise that 9/11 was a
successful coup d'etat. The Republic of the United States of America was
overthrown.

Taking a Step Back
http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan63.html
Hermann Goering proclaimed that although "the people don't want war," they "can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders." http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm

Yes.. it's something like when Edward Grey said on the outbreak of WWI.. that the lights are going out all over Yerrup.. and that they wouldn't be relit in his lifetime..
With the extinguishing of individual freedom in the US, the land of the free, we can say the same for the world..1776–2001 Liberty...RIP
We are entering a new Dark Ages it seems..

Some people have seen the problems clearly and not surprisingly they are those who have a clear understanding of the purpose and intent of the US Constitution..
What Will Stop It? http://www.steelonsteel.com/articles/what_will_stop_it.html

And they understand the process by which liberty has been undermined

Socialazzi and the Three E's
Westerners erroneously adhere to the belief that socialism is leftist and fascism is rightist, dialectical opposites measured along a straight political plane of extremes.In reality both lead away from freedom towards dictatorships, which are remarkably similar. http://www.steelonsteel.com/articles/socialazzi.html

Now there is only a one-party police state.

It's the same just about everywhere in the so-called "democratic countries.. the multiparty systems are a jokes.. doesn't matter what "major" party you elect.. Note what John Jackson (a lifelong Fabian i understand) says about the "post-democratic" society in the UK.. And that Mr City advocates return to city states in Yerrup..
Mr Country and Mr City both seem to agree that our political system is Broken..(I agree) What they don't say is that has been deliberately broken, as a means to implement change..

Mr Town Meets Mr Country http://groups.yahoo.com/group/diggers350/message/521

It's ironic that the big March on Sept 22 was about chasing foxes.. guaranteed to divide.. the people... While the major question facing the UK(and most other nation states) is whether there is still the political will and reason for the UK to exist, as a nation state..

No Constitution or Bill of

Rights, no freedom of speech, travel or asssociation. Wear a "Peace" slogan
tee-shirt or make a joke about "Terror" and you go to prison. Be careful
what
you say.

Yes.. we seem to be headed for something like traditional European feudalism/communism/fascism, on a global scale.. combining all the worst traits of the major totalitarian ideologies (communism/fascism) and capitalism..
Someone called it fascilism.. probably as good as any description..

Most of this was evident from the start.
Ave atque Vale USA.
David in Wimborne.

"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history,the stage of rule by brute force."
Ayn Rand – The Nature of Government

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws."
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

A Republic, If You Can Keep It
http://www.fff.org/comment/ed1101j.asp

A Republic, If You Can Keep It
The Founding Fathers supported the view that (in the words of the Declaration of Independence) "Men … are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights." They recognized that such rights should not be violated by an unrestrained majority any more than they should be violated by an unrestrained king or monarch. In fact, they recognized that majority rule would quickly degenerate into mobocracy and then into tyranny. They had studied the history of both the Greek democracies and the Roman republic. They had a clear understanding of the relative freedom and stability that had characterized the latter, and of the strife and turmoil — quickly followed by despotism — that had characterized the former. In drafting the Constitution, they created a government of law and not of men, a republic and not a democracy. http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2000/11–06–2000/vo16no23_republic.htm

"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."
Aristotle

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2000/cr020200.htm
Ron Paul.. is one of very few.. if not the only congressman/senator… that tries to uphold the constitution

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From
liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."
-- Alexander Fraser Tyler (later Lord Alexander Fraser Woodhouslee), in "The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic", published – 1776 http://www.jcunard.com/survivalofdemocracy.htm

The above lends more meaning doesn't it .. To the UK's recently giving a "K" to Mr Bubble himself, Greenspan.. the Benjamin Strong of our generation.... I guess they wanted to give big Al an anticipatory alibi.. before the next leg of the financial crash..

The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections."
~Lord Acton,

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Originally from: brentns
                        
Hi Ron,

No.. i wasn't surprised either...sad to say.. I'm rather cynical as well.. Whenever countries want to go to war.. they always have to present issues to their domestic audiences in terms of "moral" values, to which the majority or the sheeple can relate..

However, our governments' actions in foreign affairs, often belie the "values" in which the domestic sheeple believe...often completely unbekownst to the domestic audiences..

Originally.. the USA had a better philosophy.. that is that the US Feds should have responsibility for defense.. but shouldn't go meddling in foreign adventures, as the Europeans routinely did..
Sadly.. this philosophy has been lost over time..

All the Best
brent

Originally from: Bill
                        
Very true, Brent. I have never been able to work out why the NAZIS are thought to be right wing. They were of course the National Socialists and Hitler, like Margaret Thatcher, had a vision of a society where everyone owned a car, hence the VOLKSWAGEN, the German for PEOPLES CAR.

In my opinion the USA had ceased to be a democracy long before 9/11, Orwell was just a little out with his timing. Of course the UK has never been a democracy, what was a largely benign regime run by the Queen and Privy Council has been hijacked by Blair and his cronies. We now have a lunatic and his wife in charge of the asylum and are well and truly on the road to ruin.

Bill.