Phew!.....I'm not going to get CJD after all

" Ricolas
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?224@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@3b9b5ca7@.4a90caeb/83>
– 11:03am Feb 22, 2003 GMT (#80
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@.4a90caeb/83> of 84)
Keep going Coshipi.
NB The BSE agent is not fully understood, and giving it the label of
prion is helpful, but not the whole story.
BSE was caused by feeding scrapie infected matter to cows, of that there
is little doubt. My great aunt resigned her job so that she could help
publicise this fact on behalf of the Royal Society (of which she is one
of the 14 female fellows) As one of the top experts in neuropathology in
the europe for many years, I am inclined to trust both her and her
colleagues research and information. "

... wrote:
Very interesting ongoing debate on Mark Purdey's views under this header (in case you thought it was mine own creation) on the manganese/bse link at Guardian Unlimited:

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@36.m51NapFirbg.7@.4a90caeb/81

As I have previously mentioned this site is often not for the faint-hearted, but despite the fact that many of the contributors to this thread are almost terminally "up themselves" they are nonetheless also academically considerably more well-equipped to discuss this matter than I am – which in all fairness wouldn't be difficult! Unsurprisingly perhaps most of these are also quite scathing of Mark's work, but he does have a couple of allies too. Well worth reading even if you don't feel brave enough to join in!

--
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To leave the group, email: ...

... wrote:

Very interesting ongoing debate on Mark Purdey's views under this header (in case you thought it was mine own creation) on the manganese/bse link at Guardian Unlimited:

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@36.m51NapFirbg.7@.4a90caeb/81

As I have previously mentioned this site is often not for the faint-hearted, but despite the fact that many of the contributors to this thread are almost terminally "up themselves" they are nonetheless also academically considerably more well-equipped to discuss this matter than I am – which in all fairness wouldn't be difficult! Unsurprisingly perhaps most of these are also quite scathing of Mark's work, but he does have a couple of allies too. Well worth reading even if you don't feel brave enough to join in!

--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking

To leave the group, email: ...

... wrote:

Author wrote:

Sue,
Please could you ask this poster why the Icelandic folks who eat scrapie
sheep are still healthy?
As we all now know the fellows of the Royal Society CAN be wrong!!!!!!!

- I will go and do that now Joyce, but it may be some time before I get a reply – if at all – since a lot of these posters only seem to use GU at their employer's expense, clearly preferring to set aside the weekend for more hedonistic pursuits!! Mind you if they do reply I will obviously have to keep referring back to you to sustain the debate :-)

" Ricolas
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?224@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@3b9b5ca7@.4a90caeb/83>
- 11:03am Feb 22, 2003 GMT (#80
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@.4a90caeb/83> of 84)
Keep going Coshipi.
NB The BSE agent is not fully understood, and giving it the label of
prion is helpful, but not the whole story.
BSE was caused by feeding scrapie infected matter to cows, of that there
is little doubt. My great aunt resigned her job so that she could help
publicise this fact on behalf of the Royal Society (of which she is one
of the 14 female fellows) As one of the top experts in neuropathology in
the europe for many years, I am inclined to trust both her and her
colleagues research and information. "
... wrote:

Very interesting ongoing debate on Mark Purdey's views under this header (in case you thought it was mine own creation) on the manganese/bse link at Guardian Unlimited:

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@36.m51NapFirbg.7@.4a90caeb/81

As I have previously mentioned this site is often not for the faint-hearted, but despite the fact that many of the contributors to this thread are almost terminally "up themselves" they are nonetheless also academically considerably more well-equipped to discuss this matter than I am – which in all fairness wouldn't be difficult! Unsurprisingly perhaps most of these are also quite scathing of Mark's work, but he does have a couple of allies too. Well worth reading even if you don't feel brave enough to join in!

--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking

To leave the group, email: ...

--
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Author wrote:

Author wrote:
Just point them to the article 'Educating Rida'.....I think it is on
warmwell and farmtalking as well as Mark's own site!
J

Hi again Joyce
I have had this response from Coshipi – who I don't think from previous postings is likely to be either placated or impressed by 'Educating Rida' or anything else Mark has to say!
coshipi – 09:37am Feb 23, 2003 GMT (#86 of 86)
Margot Nearly everyone who has eaten scrapie-infected sheep over many centuries, in nearly every country where mutton is eaten, has remained healthy. If scrapie crosses the ovine-human species barrier at all, it's very rare.
That's a completely separate question from the question of whether scrapie can cross the ovine-bovine species barrier, which was never tested until the feeding of rendered sheep carcases to cattle.
If (and I don't know whether this is true or not, but it certainly could be) the exact form of the infective agent is altered in its expression in cattle, then it could perfectly well be that its new form is more capable of crossing the bovine-human species barrier. The recent appearance of vCJD is at least consistent with this interpretation

... wrote:

Author wrote:

Sue,
Please could you ask this poster why the Icelandic folks who eat scrapie
sheep are still healthy?
As we all now know the fellows of the Royal Society CAN be wrong!!!!!!!

- I will go and do that now Joyce, but it may be some time before I get a reply – if at all – since a lot of these posters only seem to use GU at their employer's expense, clearly preferring to set aside the weekend for more hedonistic pursuits!! Mind you if they do reply I will obviously have to keep referring back to you to sustain the debate :-)

" Ricolas
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?224@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@3b9b5ca7@.4a90caeb/83>
- 11:03am Feb 22, 2003 GMT (#80
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@.4a90caeb/83> of 84)
Keep going Coshipi.
NB The BSE agent is not fully understood, and giving it the label of
prion is helpful, but not the whole story.
BSE was caused by feeding scrapie infected matter to cows, of that there
is little doubt. My great aunt resigned her job so that she could help
publicise this fact on behalf of the Royal Society (of which she is one
of the 14 female fellows) As one of the top experts in neuropathology in
the europe for many years, I am inclined to trust both her and her
colleagues research and information. "
... wrote:

Very interesting ongoing debate on Mark Purdey's views under this header (in case you thought it was mine own creation) on the manganese/bse link at Guardian Unlimited:

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@36.m51NapFirbg.7@.4a90caeb/81

As I have previously mentioned this site is often not for the faint-hearted, but despite the fact that many of the contributors to this thread are almost terminally "up themselves" they are nonetheless also academically considerably more well-equipped to discuss this matter than I am – which in all fairness wouldn't be difficult! Unsurprisingly perhaps most of these are also quite scathing of Mark's work, but he does have a couple of allies too. Well worth reading even if you don't feel brave enough to join in!

--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking

To leave the group, email: ...

--
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... wrote:

Author wrote:

Sue,
Please could you ask this poster why the Icelandic folks who eat scrapie
sheep are still healthy?
As we all now know the fellows of the Royal Society CAN be wrong!!!!!!!

- I will go and do that now Joyce, but it may be some time before I get a reply – if at all – since a lot of these posters only seem to use GU at their employer's expense, clearly preferring to set aside the weekend for more hedonistic pursuits!! Mind you if they do reply I will obviously have to keep referring back to you to sustain the debate :-)

" Ricolas
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?224@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@3b9b5ca7@.4a90caeb/83>
- 11:03am Feb 22, 2003 GMT (#80
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@.4a90caeb/83> of 84)
Keep going Coshipi.
NB The BSE agent is not fully understood, and giving it the label of
prion is helpful, but not the whole story.
BSE was caused by feeding scrapie infected matter to cows, of that there
is little doubt. My great aunt resigned her job so that she could help
publicise this fact on behalf of the Royal Society (of which she is one
of the 14 female fellows) As one of the top experts in neuropathology in
the europe for many years, I am inclined to trust both her and her
colleagues research and information. "
... wrote:

Very interesting ongoing debate on Mark Purdey's views under this header (in case you thought it was mine own creation) on the manganese/bse link at Guardian Unlimited:

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@36.m51NapFirbg.7@.4a90caeb/81

As I have previously mentioned this site is often not for the faint-hearted, but despite the fact that many of the contributors to this thread are almost terminally "up themselves" they are nonetheless also academically considerably more well-equipped to discuss this matter than I am – which in all fairness wouldn't be difficult! Unsurprisingly perhaps most of these are also quite scathing of Mark's work, but he does have a couple of allies too. Well worth reading even if you don't feel brave enough to join in!

--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking

To leave the group, email: ...

--
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... wrote:

Oh well at least they are being polite!

Guardian Talk Science
Phew!...I'm not going to get CJD after all!!!! You are logged in as
MargotMetroland

Post a message | Subscribe
Started by SoundOpinions at 04:18pm Feb 19, 2003 GMT

Well, far less likely anyway. After all those dodgy burgers I had at school in the late 80s this BSE thing started to worry me a bit. But after discovering the theories of this chap I now eat more beef than ever and worry about the manganese in my frying pan instead. The government is disgraceful is trying to prevent this theory coming to public light. He deserves a medal (and a nobel prize) for keeping going.

http://www.purdeyenvironment.com/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,677821,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,401517,00.html

---

Top | Previous | All messages | Outline (86 previous messages)

---

Ricolas – 11:22am Feb 23, 2003 GMT (#87 of 88)
Margot A good point, but one cleared up to a degree by the fact that although brain and spinal cord from cattle makes into our food chain (or used to), it is troublesome and not worth the effort to extract this from sheep. However in parts of the world where eating sheeps brains and eyeballs etc is more common, there is a higher occurence of CJD. I do not have the figures to hand, alas, but I seem to recall it as being 30% higher. But a wise person would check that figure!!

As far as studying the BSE agent is concerned, it has proved to be very difficult to isolate, which probably explains to a degree why there is vagueness about about it.

Author wrote:

Author wrote:

Just point them to the article 'Educating Rida'.....I think it is on
warmwell and farmtalking as well as Mark's own site!
J

Hi again Joyce
I have had this response from Coshipi – who I don't think from previous postings is likely to be either placated or impressed by 'Educating Rida' or anything else Mark has to say!
coshipi – 09:37am Feb 23, 2003 GMT (#86 of 86)
Margot Nearly everyone who has eaten scrapie-infected sheep over many centuries, in nearly every country where mutton is eaten, has remained healthy. If scrapie crosses the ovine-human species barrier at all, it's very rare.
That's a completely separate question from the question of whether scrapie can cross the ovine-bovine species barrier, which was never tested until the feeding of rendered sheep carcases to cattle.
If (and I don't know whether this is true or not, but it certainly could be) the exact form of the infective agent is altered in its expression in cattle, then it could perfectly well be that its new form is more capable of crossing the bovine-human species barrier. The recent appearance of vCJD is at least consistent with this interpretation

... wrote:

Author wrote:

Sue,
Please could you ask this poster why the Icelandic folks who eat scrapie
sheep are still healthy?
As we all now know the fellows of the Royal Society CAN be wrong!!!!!!!

- I will go and do that now Joyce, but it may be some time before I get a reply – if at all – since a lot of these posters only seem to use GU at their employer's expense, clearly preferring to set aside the weekend for more hedonistic pursuits!! Mind you if they do reply I will obviously have to keep referring back to you to sustain the debate :-)

" Ricolas
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?224@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@3b9b5ca7@.4a90caeb/83>
- 11:03am Feb 22, 2003 GMT (#80
<http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@222.F6ISacFqreZ.0@.4a90caeb/83> of 84)
Keep going Coshipi.
NB The BSE agent is not fully understood, and giving it the label of
prion is helpful, but not the whole story.
BSE was caused by feeding scrapie infected matter to cows, of that there
is little doubt. My great aunt resigned her job so that she could help
publicise this fact on behalf of the Royal Society (of which she is one
of the 14 female fellows) As one of the top experts in neuropathology in
the europe for many years, I am inclined to trust both her and her
colleagues research and information. "
... wrote:

Very interesting ongoing debate on Mark Purdey's views under this header (in case you thought it was mine own creation) on the manganese/bse link at Guardian Unlimited:

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@36.m51NapFirbg.7@.4a90caeb/81

As I have previously mentioned this site is often not for the faint-hearted, but despite the fact that many of the contributors to this thread are almost terminally "up themselves" they are nonetheless also academically considerably more well-equipped to discuss this matter than I am – which in all fairness wouldn't be difficult! Unsurprisingly perhaps most of these are also quite scathing of Mark's work, but he does have a couple of allies too. Well worth reading even if you don't feel brave enough to join in!

--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking

To leave the group, email: ...

--
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have yet to see any evidence that CJD or vCJD are infectious.
An "Infection" according to the Oxford Medical Companion is a condition in
which a micro-organism invades and multiplies in body tissue.
The prion is not a micro-organism, it is a collapsed nerve tissue molecule.
As far as I am aware nobody has bothered to try to find out the function of
the healthy molecule, Prusiner and his team are greedily searching for
patentable drugs to prevent the disease.
There is no associated Nucleic Acid and therefore the prion cannot multiply.
The prion has never been shown to be capable of invasion other than through a
hole drilled in the victim's head.
So why on earth are people still referring to CJD and vCJD as infectious
diseases? These are degenerative conditions on a par with cancer, diabetes
and arthritis.
Bill.

Author wrote:
Susan,
I have registered with Guardian Unlimited and had my e-mail verified but
there doesn't seem to be anything to tell you how to post a message.
Have I missed something?
Bill.

Author wrote:
Hi Bill
when you go into the site you should get a little box to the right which says you are logged in as whoever you have chosen to be. If it says guest then you have to log in, although sometimes when you go to the particular discussion from that front page the user name will change from guest to your own without you actually having to go through the log-in process and there will be a box at the end of the discussion to enable you to post your own comments which isn't there when you are still coming up as a guest. Sorry to sound so vague, but it is quite a while since I first logged in and I am struggling a little to recall how to do it.
Failing that I would go back to your initial response from GU telling you that you can now contribute and follow the link they give you. And if all else fails mail Gillian McNulty one of the moderators on there who will guide you through it I am sure (just don't mention duct tape though as she will be deleting you quicker than you know it – sorry an in joke and an indicator that I have spent far too much time there today and that I must now get on with something considerably more productive)
I hope this helps and profuse apologies in advance if it doesn't. I'll have another look next time I'm on there
Regards
Sue

Author wrote:
Susan,
I have registered with Guardian Unlimited and had my e-mail verified but
there doesn't seem to be anything to tell you how to post a message.
Have I missed something?
Bill.

Author wrote:
Hi Susan –
I too have a problem with posting to Guardian Talk!
I hope the problem clears up soon – meanwhile maybe you would make the same suggestion?
I had thought I would suggest they take a look at Mark's own website – http://www.markpurdey.com
It might help them answer a few questions concerning his theories/research.
I have at last finally completely moved house – that is apart from clearing a garage full of junk!
Just as a reminder – my new phone number is – 01361–884604
Answerphone if I'm tied up – leave a message and I'll call back asap!
Best wishes – Jane

Author wrote:
Hi Bill
when you go into the site you should get a little box to the right which says you are logged in as whoever you have chosen to be. If it says guest then you have to log in, although sometimes when you go to the particular discussion from that front page the user name will change from guest to your own without you actually having to go through the log-in process and there will be a box at the end of the discussion to enable you to post your own comments which isn't there when you are still coming up as a guest. Sorry to sound so vague, but it is quite a while since I first logged in and I am struggling a little to recall how to do it.
Failing that I would go back to your initial response from GU telling you that you can now contribute and follow the link they give you. And if all else fails mail Gillian McNulty one of the moderators on there who will guide you through it I am sure (just don't mention duct tape though as she will be deleting you quicker than you know it – sorry an in joke and an indicator that I have spent far too much time there today and that I must now get on with something considerably more productive)
I hope this helps and profuse apologies in advance if it doesn't. I'll have another look next time I'm on there
Regards
Sue

Author wrote:
Susan,
I have registered with Guardian Unlimited and had my e-mail verified but
there doesn't seem to be anything to tell you how to post a message.
Have I missed something?
Bill.

Author wrote:
Susan & Jane,
Had another look and there seems to be a problem, most frustrating.
All that stuff about transmission of the disease to monkeys brains on a
sterilised scalpel is nonesense and I wanted to ask where the myth
originated. The myth was of course widely reported not too long since in a
scare story about how tens of thousands of humans could have become infected
during surgery using contaminated scalpels.
That story fizzled out after a day or so. If you cry wolf too often then even
the dimmest punters are going to get a bit sceptical.
Bill.

... wrote:

Sorry to hear that Bill, all I can suggest in the interim is that I act as some kind of intermediary, ie if you type out exactly what you want me to post then I will put it on there for you.