Liberty And Livelihood

Originally from: Frances Fish
                        
What a great pity that the strident voices of the pro-hunt lobby are yet again highjacking the so-called march on 22nd supposed to be for "Liberty and Livelihood ".There is so much more at stake than hunting with dogs. I could not support this march because of this and I will not be alone. I do care about countryside issues but there is NO WAY I will march alongside those who promote hunting. What a great pity, what a missed opportunity, what an error of judgment?

Frances

Originally from: coleen
                        
Frances – believe me, you are not alone. The concerns of the countryside will either not be voiced – or not be heard. The Hunting fraternity will have the loudest voice.

Us ordinary countryside dwellers – are getting lumped under the same banner. Seems we cannot find a voice. We were caught up in fmd, and no one supported us then, as people thought, ALL, farm animals were better of dead – then living in misery on farms. We are now caught up in the hunting debate, and seen by people in the town and cities as supporting this cruelty, simply because we live rurally.

Seems to be that we ordinary people need a campaign. Living in the country does not make us cruel mass murderers of anything that moves. Doubt, though anyone will rally to our cause.

Coleen

Originally from: Farmtalking
                        
I can understand, and have some sympathy for, the views expressed by Francis and Coleen but at the same time I am still certain that 'the only people who never win are those who give up' If we are not there our voices cannot be heard.

I also realise that the cost of attending the March and personal commitments also prevent some of us from going, but that doesn't mean we can't lend our support and try to ensure our voice is heard in other ways.

To quote Martin Luther King, '"Our lives begin to end, the day we become silent about things that matter."

Originally from: coleen
                        
But, Jane we are just going to be seen as 'supporting' hunting, and adding numbers to their cause. No paper, or news channel is going to point out that the Francis's and I of this World are there for reasons other then hunting. The anti hunting bill, is the only news media interest as far as rural issues go at present.

It sickens me to see road signs all sprayed painted with graffiti 'saying leave hunting alone. What a lovely sight for people to see – red paint graffiti everywhere. Strangely enough Jane I do not recall ever seeing the road signs painted throughout fmd. A few farmers placed boards up of their own – but no mass outcry against what MAFF/DEFRA were doing to farmers and their animals. This is total hypocrisy Jane from the hunting lobby, so long as they can carry on hunting – then all's alright with the World.

Coleen

Originally from: Farmtalking
                        
In many ways you are right Coleen – and only time will tell. After all, isn't it said, 'we get what we deserve' and if country folk are not willing to stand up for what they believe in, protest about the things that do concern us, we cannot expect others to do it for us.

The anti hunting lobby have got massive support in some quarters, and indeed it appears the majority are against it, which is hardly surprising as the great majority do not live or work in the countryside.

The fact that the 'Liberty and Livlihood' march appears to be no more than a pro-hunting demo to some, or even the majority, leaves those who have other concerns free to choose whether or not to take part.

The point I was trying to make, is that if we do have other concerns in relation to the countryside that take priority over our 'pro' or 'anti' hunting stance, to join the march and carry placards stating our aims and objectives, will surely go some way to publicising them. Whereas if we stay at home, it may prove we have missed an opportunity and regret it later.

I guess that is a matter for each of us to decide for ourselves!

Originally from: David
                        
I agree Jane,

I am not impressed that the CA seems unable to help farmers (for action) when we needed them.
But I will still support this as it is the only voice we are likely to get.

David

Originally from: Molly Maxwell
                        
I gather Farmers for Action are joining the march – for farmers. Details are on their website – anyone anti hunting surely could join their crowd?

Just a suggestion – we need numbers in London, otherwise it will all be a waste of time and effort for those of us who are going for 'Liberty and Livelihood.

Luv
Lynne
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Originally from: coleen
                        
When TB came to Cumbria a few weeks ago, there was obviously protesters waiting to shout and ask questions, as he came to open a research lab at UCB wigton. Some of the protesters were fmd related (Nick was one).

The Cumberland news in it's comments column, largely glossed over these protesters, in fact I cannot remember if they were even mentioned. In stead they picked out the pro hunting lobby – and said that they were doing a great disservice to Cumbria. TB was here to give a much needed boost to tourism – and for that we should be thankful. They went onto say that the graffiti that these protesters had left everywhere was disgraceful etc etc. (which was nothing to do with the fmd protesters). So the fmd protesters justifiable calls for answers, was – simply drowned out and ignored by the local press, in their attack on the pro hunting lobby.

The press backed TB all the way and how this was a much needed boost for Tourism in the County.

Coleen

.

Originally from: Joyce
                        
I seem to remember last year we were writing to all sorts of organisations pleading for them to band together against the FMD policy.....together we stand etc.... Now what are we ourselves doing with regard to the L and L March?....what is wrong with joining the Farmers for Action group? Surely we can see that this is NOT only about the hunting issue and it is up to us to have suitable placards or whatever. Joyce

Originally from: Molly Maxwell
                        
My sentiments exactly Joyce – you have a better way of expressing it!

See you on 22nd – for L & L!

Luv
Lynne
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Originally from: Molly Maxwell
                        
Huh, that's politics for you Coleen, government spin and all that, what blair is very clever at.

Sick innit?
Luv
Lynne

I'm going on the march – it's probably the last time I'll be able to stand up and be counted, (as a country bumpkin – that is!).

If all of us fighting for L & L allows the pro hunting lot to overwhelm us, then it's our own bloody fault.

Archie and I can ill afford this trip, but we will be there – for Livelihood and Liberty.
Luv
Lynne
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Originally from: coleen
                        
David Lowes Deputy Chief Exucutive Countryside Alliance (Letter Cumberland News)

He states that Cumbria seems to have buried it head regarding the L&L March. (perhaps he has the same letter in other rural papers). He writes that on a visit to your County last week – I had to ask, where are the banners, the car stcikers – the resolute who so love the Countryside?
This march is about the right of people to hunt?
We are not asking everyone to like hunting, but to ask themselves what will happen to our landscape if parliament are allowed to ban hunting.
For this would be a ban on fiction – and predujices – not fact.
He goes onto say Cumbrians should remember well what happens when a government acts like this etc etc...

So he wonders why the ordinary person living in the countryside, the farmer, the people who care about the countryside even, will not don boots and march! Because apart from their members people HATE hunting. And no matter what is being said and written – this march is seen as that.

This Cumbrian for the past 25 years does remember – she also remembers that the CA did not seem to care about what happened to the landscape when the fell sheep were being slaughtered, or millions of other animals. How dare he write, Cumbrians should 'know and remember' what happens!

Cumbrians farmers all mostly family run – do not – will not go and march under this banner. They are busy working on their farms. He is correct when he asks where are the banners etc – they are almost non exsistent. I wonder why?

We drove through Teesdale and then onto Richmond on Friday, very few again. There were a few on the A66 between Barnard Castle and Richmond – but underneath some of the banners it read (save hunting). This busy road was nose to tail with mainly tourists – this is the lasting impression they see. They probably have no idea what is really happening in the Countryside – but then they see 'save hunting' banners. Why no banners – saying save farming, save our schools, save our tranport – all far more important to the majority of rural people. Maybe then, just maybe, we might get a little more support.

Perhaps the hunting lobby, will be satisfied when the Countyside is emptied of people, they can then ALL hunt to their hearts content – with no one to bother them.

Coleen
                        

Originally from: Molly Maxwell
                        
Please don't take offence at my following remark Coleen, but it is my belief that people like yourselves have allowed this march to be a "pro hunting" march.

I'll bet all the FFA members don't carry pro hunting banners. The march is for all country people – why don't you come along and carry a banner to the effect of save our schools, transport etc. It is not compulsory to carry a pro hunting banner. The people that march carry the banner of their choice and if nobody bothers to do that then it will be just a pro hunting demonstration. Come on Coleen, we need more "Save our countryside" marchers, then the hunting lot will be in a minority.

If we country folk don't stick together now and make ourselves heard then we deserve to lose what little we might still have. Archie and I both lost nine months work because of FMD – although obviously we were nowhere near as badly hit as livestock farmers, we still had no money at all coming in. We can ill afford the £90.00 it is costing us but we feel that if we didn't go, we'd just be one of the rest of the apathetic lot that now live in this country. If you feel strongly enough about an issue, then at least try and do something about it.

This will probably be my last march, I too am becoming very disillusioned. I feel, as a non farmer that I have wasted a lot of time, energy and hard earned cash fighting their corner when they don't even bother to get off their backsides to help themselves. This march is for Livelihood and Liberty. Foxhunting is a very small issue.

Luv
Lynne

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Originally from: coleen
                        
No offence taken – but you miss my point. You and I are aware that there will be other people marching on the day., The majority of people only hear and see the hunting lobby Lynne. This is the point I am making. Farmers around here – even think it is just for the hunting folk! Not everyone is tuned in to what is happening. And if the CA write letters like that – stating it is a hunting march – then where is the other side of the story coming from? And you are wrong, people like myself have not allowed it to become a 'pro hunting march' – it is just more news topical, that's the truth Lynne. Surely you realise that farming etc is old news – the farmers have already been knocked down, nothing to write about there. The press and the public now want to turn their attentions to the hunting lobby. I am not a deafest, or apathetic (if you think that of me, then you should speak to the people who do not give a s**t about rural values and life). They would watch us all pack our bags and leave our homes and land behind. I am just a realist Lynne – the two are totally different.

 I write what I see and feel, not what people want to hear. The truth is, I do not know 1 person that is going. If I was not on this group and others , I would not know it was happening.

The truth is TB already knows which way he is going on hunting, and the future for the rural areas is already decided Lynne. Is carrying a banner through the streets – really going to change any of that. Our leader is looking further afield these days – then to his own green and pleasant land.

Yes, I will carry on trying to do my bit, I am just one of the people who see marches as futile. We have so many of them in this Country, that the public seem to have become blasé about them.

Foxhunting is not a small issue – it is the issue. Read some of the newsgroups Lynne.
It is like fmd all over again, no sympathy for farmers then – no sympathy for rural people now. Rural folks join the queue – everyone wants more!

I do not make it like that, by writing about it, that's how it is.

Coleen

Originally from: Bill
                        
Just a thought. We will have to get the focus of attention away from hunting otherwise the press will dismiss it as a Hooray Henry bash. Does anyone have any of those yellow suits such as the one worn by Blair? A few dozen placard carrying yellow suited marchers would surely get in the papers, especially if wearing Blair masks!!

Bill.
                        

Originally from: Molly Maxwell
                        
I agree Bill – sadly I don't have a yellow suit, but if anyone does and is not using it I would gladly wear it (size 10!!)
Luv
Lynne
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Originally from: Molly Maxwell
                        
Coleen, believe me I do know where you are coming from, what I am saying is let's outnumber the pro hunters and then it will be a L & L march.

Like you my dear, I am only trying to do my bit. I really would love to meet up with you in London – I'd march with you and carry any banner you wanted me to carry!
We are going primarily for Livelihood but also for Liberty.

Please try and see my point of view – if all the people fighting for the countryside could just for one day put the foxhunting issue aside and march for what they believe in we would make a difference.

There will always be an anti hunting lobby and a pro hunting lobby – that battle can be fought at a later date – it's now we have to think about and if we don't stand up and be counted, what chance do we have.

Luv
Lynne

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