RE;: Today is a special healing day

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Dear Mike, There are people out here who have been severely traumatised by what happened in the foot and mouth epidemic last year. There are people out here who were responsible for their suffering. I do not think anyone has the right to inflict such trauma on another, I do not think it appropriate to suggest turning the other cheek or sleeping with the enemy. The time is not right to forgive much less to forget (if we only could ) I do not wish to suggest that all who suffered are merely victims and that those who wronged them were totally to blame, nothing is ever that black and white. But many out here still feel a burning sense of injustice about the way we were treated, the lies that were, and are, being told. To be portrayed as "dirty, greedy, callous farmers " only compounds the sense of deep outrage we feel. What we ask is the truth to come out and that includes apportioning blame for mistakes made and, if appropriate, guilt to be established .If, or until,this is done, we cannot draw a line under this catastrophe and move on. Please. try to understand, we need answers, we need the truth, we need to see who decided certain policies, these individuals should be made accountable for their actions as you and I are for ours.There would not still be so very many out here knocking on the door if they had been generous and had a truly Public Enquiry to which anyone could be called to give evidence UNDER OATH (no spin, no hype, no advisers ),just the truth, are you really saying we should not ask for this, that it is not our due ? Frances

Originally from: Pat Gardiner
                        

Author wrote:
There is an old martial arts maxim which goes...
"The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as he will in life"
None of us could help experiencing our rage and pain last year, but continuing to hold onto our wounds, sense of injustice and ensuing anger is a choice.
In view of the continuing health risks (on top of what I have already suffered) and the unskillfulness of rage (research repeatedly shows that victims have an awful habit of becoming abusers) I have personally chosen to heal and move forwards, building on what I have experienced and working constantly to avoid a repetition of that monumental national disaster last year.
Continuing to batter at the same old closed door does not seem to me to be a path that will bring me or anyone else the peace of mind and quality of life that we all desire. So I am exploring more creative solutions.
I respect your choice to stay where you are until the world meets your demands, Frances, and I wish you good luck.
Mike

Hello Folks

I do not usually join anything, but someone suggested that this exachange might interest me.

The first thing I did was check to see what you had been saying about me. Disappointiongly little it seems. I must try harder.

But I did find this...

"I assume the idea of MAFF covering up a major epidemic in the indoor pig industry comes from Pat Gardiner. Much as I like Pat, I'm not entirely convinced by his conspiracy theory. he keeps citing Mike Meridith as a v sensible, impartial,
objective vet pig specialist. Abigail tells me he taught her at vet school and in her opinion he was a raving loon, all a matter of opinion i suppose."

Much as I like Mike, I can well believe that he would have that effect on the average student. He will probably take that opinion as a badge of honour. It is the measure of the man that he will think no worse of Abegail for saying it, than he will of me for agreeing.

BUT the facts are that he is one of the best qualified pig veterinarians in the country. He made a special study of CSF and has won international awards for his reporting of FMD.

Mike Meredith is a man who can seperate his personal interests and opinions from his science. His website is a national treasure. Forget the red indians, concentrate on the facts.

Mike has never suggested a conspiracy. I have. He has given you a lot of facts – hard won from a very secretive industry. I have given you a lot of facts from personal observation. I've deduced a conspiracy from those facts.

Anyone who doubts the manipulation should compare Mike's account of the actual sites on http://www.pighealth.com/csf.htm and the very limited information given by MAFF-Defra.

Mike's service to his country, given despite much abuse, will, for sure one day be rewarded. We will then have to endure his lectures on daytime TV and pretend that we agree.

Dr Fish and I suffered very seriously from the attentions of one of the famous 220. Had Scudamore done his job, Dr Fish would not have suffered. Mike, in his love of reconcilliation, should take that into account.

Healing will take place, once Page Street has been reformed or closed.

Even in the last seven days, as some of you will know, we have again come under persecution from a desperate MAFF-Defra. We have made the heart-rending decision to leave the UK and to go into political ayslum abroad.

I've been busy arranging it....in the most embarassing place that I can think of.

I believe that my wife may be the first Englishwoman ever to seek political ayslum abroad. The tabloids will love it.

Yes, reconcilliation is important but only once the crooks have been banged up behind bars.

Cheers Pat Gardiner

PS I will probably never manage to log on again – so if you really want me you had better email. Tally Ho!
                        

Originally from: Mike Meredith
                        
There is an old martial arts maxim which goes...

"The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as he will in life"

None of us could help experiencing our rage and pain last year, but continuing to hold onto our wounds, sense of injustice and ensuing anger is a choice.

In view of the continuing health risks (on top of what I have already suffered) and the unskillfulness of rage (research repeatedly shows that victims have an awful habit of becoming abusers) I have personally chosen to heal and move forwards, building on what I have experienced and working constantly to avoid a repetition of that monumental national disaster last year.

Continuing to batter at the same old closed door does not seem to me to be a path that will bring me or anyone else the peace of mind and quality of life that we all desire. So I am exploring more creative solutions.

I respect your choice to stay where you are until the world meets your demands, Frances, and I wish you good luck.

Mike
                        

Originally from: Bill
                        
There was no conspiracy, just stupid blind ignorance, the result decades of a culture of false science. "Negative" tests from a clinically diagnosed animal do not indicate the animal is healthy. The tests don't work too well, when will those boneheads at Pirbright admit they are wrong?

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Dear Pat, Is this true, you are leaving ? What are we driven to ? Hope you are able to continue to be a thorn in someone's side even abroad. Good luck and very best wishes, Frances

Originally from: frances fish
                        
Dear Bill, somewhat misleading title the above has become ? In answer to your question, why not widen its scope ? When will anyone admit they were/are wrong ? I fancy, myself, it'll be when hell freezes over. As we are informed by our " scietific advisers" that we are heading for Global Warming, I think we may be going in the wrong direction, don't you ? However, that need not stop us trying to get at the truth, persistance, in my experience, often does pay.Time will, as they also say, tell.

Originally from: Mary Critchley
                        
Dear Bill

I cannot agree that the Pirbright scientists are boneheads – and negative tests in the lab do mean the absence of FMD virus if the following is correct. If you think it isn't, could you explain why not?

Best wishes

Mary

..................
"Epithelial samples were tested by ELISA, PCR and tissue culture . the tests are very sensitive and specific, approximating 100%".

In a recent e-mail to me he stated, "If we assume that samples were collected on IPs from animals with suspect clinical signs, the these are very sensitive and specific, approximating 100%. The samples were tested by ELISA, PCR and tissue culture.

If blood was submitted, this was tested for virus and antibody. Virus appears before clinical signs, so if an animal had suspect FMD, it would be virus or antibody positive, some times both, never neither. Again the tests approach 100%." (Dr Paul Kitching)
................................

From: ...

Originally from http://www.warmwell.com/july19neg.html

i) Definitive evidence on the accuracy of the Pirbright tests.
(Dr Kitching affirms that the tests are sensitive, reliable and are capable of detecting FMD in its various stages. See below.)

In the early days of the epidemic, MAFF policy was to stress how thorough the testing was to detect the presence of FMD virus and antibodies. Ms Quin in a Parliamentary Answer to Mr Jenkin on March 30th said of the testing routine, "Where it is necessary to take samples for testing, these are collected, packaged and despatched to the Institute for Animal Health at Pirbright in surrey. The IAH carries out an ELISA test which takes about 5–6 hours to complete. Positive results are then faxed to MAFF's Emergency Control Centre in London for immediate action. The ELISA test can give false negative results and so all negatives are checked by attempting to isolate the foot and mouth virus in a cell culture. This process can take 4–5 days to complete."

However, that description was later changed, and Ministers started describing these tests as not very accurate. This was frequently the information given over the phone by Animal health offices, when asked why healthy animals had been killed. DEFRA's Ray Anderson, referring the negative blood tests that came back for the slaughtered sheep at Bardon, Cumbria famously stated that a negative test did not mean that the animals weren't infected. "While the test is robust in establishing the presence of virus it is not sufficiently robust to say there is definitely no virus there." (Westmorland Gazette, October 12th)

Similarly,Mr Morley, on July 17th in a written Answer to David Maclean about slaughter and negative tests stated, "A negative test result does not necessarily mean that the premises was free from disease. For instance, positive results may not be produced from tests on blood or tissue taken when the disease is in later stages or from newly infected animals where antibodies have not yet developed."

This is incorrect information, and has been completely refuted by Kitching and Donaldson in their letter "FMD Diagnosis" to the Veterinary Record, May 19th....... The VR letter details the tests carried out by Pirbright, highlights the great accuracy, and reminds one of the world class status of Pirbright as a FMD testing centre. For the Ministers to be casting aspersions on Pirbright tests is quite frankly laughable.

My own personal research has confirmed the above. On May 21st I spoke on the telephone with Tony Garland, Pirbright about the testing, with particular reference to the massive slaughter that I feared was going to take place in the Settle district. He reassured me (wrongly as it happens) that he did not think slaughter on a large scale would take place in this area because Pirbright had the necessary accurate and quick tests available. What he envisaged was the slaughter of the Infected Premises with monitoring and testing of surrounding areas.

Finally the ultimate confirmation that the Ministers' statements were inaccurate came in e-mails (dated October and November) from Dr Kitching, in response to a communication asking for his comments on the above statements by Anderson and Morley. He said,

"Blood samples received at Pirbright are tested for both virus and antibodies; if both are negative then it would not be possible for that animal to have or have had FMD assuming they sent samples from the animals they suspected of having the disease ... the blood tests approach 100% accuracy."

"Epithelial samples were tested by ELISA, PCR and tissue culture . the tests are very sensitive and specific, approximating 100%".

In a recent e-mail to me he stated, "If we assume that samples were collected on IPs from animals with suspect clinical signs, the these are very sensitive and specific, approximating 100%. The samples were tested by ELISA, PCR and tissue culture.

If blood was submitted, this was tested for virus and antibody. Virus appears before clinical signs, so if an animal had suspect FMD, it would be virus or antibody positive, some times both, never neither. Again the tests approach 100%."

Originally from: Burkie
                        
Dear Pat: Please stay in touch, wherever you go.

Don't blame you for pulling the plug, either.

I would, too.

Burkie in Kansas

P.S. Thanks for all your wonderful contributions to us all last year and this year. The SG Fraternity is rather unique.....more like a family than strangers we've never met.

http://...

Originally from: Bill
                        
Don't fully understand your response, Mary.

A great many clinically diagnosed animals returned negative tests, animals with vesicles and lesions. Pirbright say the tests are almost 100% accurate so the conclusion must be those animals were healthy.

Doesn't make a lot of sense does it? Unless of course the tests are unreliable which is what I have been banging on about for the last 18 months.

Kind regards,
Bill.