Live exports and Ice cream!

3 messages

Originally from: Farmtalking

Hilary, Joyce, David and Coleen have all made excellent contributions to this topic and I'm sure they all agree with me that animal welfare should come first perhaps after the humans!

It is obvious that David is a caring farmer who strives to keep his livestock in the best of conditions. At the same time, like so many others, he is not making a decent living in return for his capital investment and effort. As he says, he wants a level playing field.

We constantly hear that we are the only members of the EU obeying the regulations, but is that really the case?

A friend reminded me me only yesterday that Denmark have had veterinary meat inspectors at their abbatoirs for years, as is the case in Spain and for all I know, many other European Countries too. We have only adopted the practise since the reg's came into force and interestingly, many of our meat inspectors are Spaniards!

It may add to our costs but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing from a public health and animal welfare point of view. In one respect this has levelled the field but in another, such as the subsidies, it is far from level. Nevertheless, it cannot be right to try to redress the balance at the expense of livestock, either hauled abroad or in the UK, as 'live' on long journeys.

David is right when he draws attention to other animal welfare problems deserving of notice and action. I couldn't agree more and having also been involved in the world of dogs too, I'm sure Coleen will agree with me that the number of unwanted pets, abandoned and destroyed on a daily basis in the UK is appalling.

We live in a 'throw-away' world, many of us deeming it necessary to have a new car, TV, mobile phone, or even Kitchen fittings, etc., every two years or less! Our children must have the latest 'gear' and we must wear the latest fashion and all too often family pets are treated the same way and 'dumped' after a few months, in favour of the latest new popular breed.

We, of the older generation, are in part to blame. Having suffered the deprivations of war torn Europe, we have striven to improve standards of living and encouraged our children to do the same, rather than be content with their lot in life. In many ways that is not a bad thing but in others it has and does, cause enormous suffering. Not least of all in the exploitation of the labour force used to create, harvest and package the goods both at home and abroad.

We want the best quality goods, in international varieties, all the year round and as cheap as possible. If we cannot earn a decent living from traditional methods without exploiting others, be they human or animal, it is time to think again and perhaps the success of the former dairy farmer Hilary mentions, who now has only three cows and makes ice cream, is one of the alternatives.

There is one thing that's a certainty, if the demonstrators are successful in banning 'live' exports an alternative will be found. After all, 'necessity is the mother of invention!'

Which reminds me – my farming neighbour was talking about getting an ice-cream making machine......hmmmm... maybe in a few months time she might give me a job flogging the stuff to the tourists on the A1? I better go and have a chat with her!

Originally from: coleen

Dear Jane and All
(second attempt) pressed the wrong button and lost the lot!

I do agree with what you write Jane.
I joined this group and others, because fmd was wicked, cruel the list is endless. Good people, healthy animals were all caught up in a mindless regime. The farmimg community had my full support (for what it was worth). But, I cannot accept that the live export of animals is accetable, or should be seen as accepable if it keeps farmers in the 'job'. Cruelty, of which I deem this to be, is no way for anyman to make a living.

As you also wrote in a previous posting Jane, neither is it acceptable for protesters to bang, and scream on the side of the wagons that hold these animals. The poor animals must be stressed out of their minds. From both sides, farming and protesting – things have to change.

David, writes he would like to see a 'level playind field' Well would we all not like to be in that position. The truth is, this is the real World. Whether it be European lead or not, farming is another one of our industries that is going to have to face up to changes and losses. Job losses are happening everyhere you look. The gap between the haves and have nots seems to be getting wider. A fair wage for a fair days pay, should apply to all – but it seldon does, accept amongst the elite of our Society, who get more than a fair days pay.

'People should be prepared to pay more for their food'. Comments being said and written about the food buying population of this Country. Perhaps we should, but most of us spend to a budget. We are already called 'rip of Britain. So if we are saying we want our cars, stereos, whatever cheaper – are we really going to start paying more for our food. I somehow doubt it. What we have to remember is that the majority of this Country live in the Cities. A cow is a cow, a sheep is a sheep. Where the product they are buying comes from – probably never enters their heads. Beef is on the menu, and it has to fit into the budget. Cusummers have had cheap produce for far too long to be able to turn back the tide.

I do not think that we are a naturally uncaring Country, it is just that we all have problems in our lifes. All my friends have concerns – elderly parents needing medical care. What they tell me about trying to get it, is beyond belief. It is scary. It is like lisening to people from third Worlds Countries – not the UK. Other friends, scared for the safety of their children. Sometimes we all can ALL only take so much on board.

Farming will go through changes, jobs will be lost. it seems to be the way of life. Would our Victorian ancestors ever have though we would loose the Empire, or our steel, railways etc. All gone in less than a 100 years.

Sometimes from out of the badness and gloom new beginnings arise. Last year Cumbria was bleeding. There are still many many questions to be answered, and still people left suffering. But, it is recovering – and life does go on. It has to. Even after the worst disasters the pieces have to be picked back up.

This Governement seem to have have done extremely well in creating a paranio for those of us who live rurally. The belief that they will kill off our all animals – if we believe everything that is written – is never far away. What choice, other than to give in – but to carry on. If we all stood firmly by, what we believe, then NO Government could trample over its people. People seem very easily swayed though. Scared that they will be outcasts from Society. I firmly believe we can ALL make a change and a difference. Some of us do try, others see greed and self gratifaction at any cost, as the way forward.

Coleen

Author wrote:
Hilary, Joyce, David and Coleen have all made excellent contributions to this topic and I'm sure they all agree with me that animal welfare should come first perhaps after the humans!
It is obvious that David is a caring farmer who strives to keep his livestock in the best of conditions. At the same time, like so many others, he is not making a decent living in return for his capital investment and effort. As he says, he wants a level playing field.
We constantly hear that we are the only members of the EU obeying the regulations, but is that really the case?
A friend reminded me me only yesterday that Denmark have had veterinary meat inspectors at their abbatoirs for years, as is the case in Spain and for all I know, many other European Countries too. We have only adopted the practise since the reg's came into force and interestingly, many of our meat inspectors are Spaniards!
It may add to our costs but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing from a public health and animal welfare point of view. In one respect this has levelled the field but in another, such as the subsidies, it is far from level. Nevertheless, it cannot be right to try to redress the balance at the expense of livestock, either hauled abroad or in the UK, as 'live' on long journeys.
David is right when he draws attention to other animal welfare problems deserving of notice and action. I couldn't agree more and having also been involved in the world of dogs too, I'm sure Coleen will agree with me that the number of unwanted pets, abandoned and destroyed on a daily basis in the UK is appalling.
We live in a 'throw-away' world, many of us deeming it necessary to have a new car, TV, mobile phone, or even Kitchen fittings, etc., every two years or less! Our children must have the latest 'gear' and we must wear the latest fashion and all too often family pets are treated the same way and 'dumped' after a few months, in favour of the latest new popular breed.
We, of the older generation, are in part to blame. Having suffered the deprivations of war torn Europe, we have striven to improve standards of living and encouraged our children to do the same, rather than be content with their lot in life. In many ways that is not a bad thing but in others it has and does, cause enormous suffering. Not least of all in the exploitation of the labour force used to create, harvest and package the goods both at home and abroad.
We want the best quality goods, in international varieties, all the year round and as cheap as possible. If we cannot earn a decent living from traditional methods without exploiting others, be they human or animal, it is time to think again and perhaps the success of the former dairy farmer Hilary mentions, who now has only three cows and makes ice cream, is one of the alternatives.
There is one thing that's a certainty, if the demonstrators are successful in banning 'live' exports an alternative will be found. After all, 'necessity is the mother of invention!'
Which reminds me – my farming neighbour was talking about getting an ice-cream making machine......hmmmm... maybe in a few months time she might give me a job flogging the stuff to the tourists on the A1? I better go and have a chat with her!

Originally from: coleen

In order to be fair, it is not just farming that has a welfare problem. Cruelty as Jane wrote, does occur in all animal life. I am truly amazed that people can go out and spend over £400 on a dog, only to find they made a 'mistake'. The dog does not fit into their life style. Breeders who sell and breed dogs and make a living from doing so. 'Puppy Farmers' as they are known. The dogs kept in dreadful conditions.

Animals as well as bringing out the best in some of us – also have the ability to bring out the worse in many of us. So farming does not stand alone. And just as there are good and bad dogs owners and breeders – so with farming. I also suspect that applies right across the board in the animal kingdom.

Coleen

Author wrote:
Hilary, Joyce, David and Coleen have all made excellent contributions to this topic and I'm sure they all agree with me that animal welfare should come first perhaps after the humans!
It is obvious that David is a caring farmer who strives to keep his livestock in the best of conditions. At the same time, like so many others, he is not making a decent living in return for his capital investment and effort. As he says, he wants a level playing field.
We constantly hear that we are the only members of the EU obeying the regulations, but is that really the case?
A friend reminded me me only yesterday that Denmark have had veterinary meat inspectors at their abbatoirs for years, as is the case in Spain and for all I know, many other European Countries too. We have only adopted the practise since the reg's came into force and interestingly, many of our meat inspectors are Spaniards!
It may add to our costs but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing from a public health and animal welfare point of view. In one respect this has levelled the field but in another, such as the subsidies, it is far from level. Nevertheless, it cannot be right to try to redress the balance at the expense of livestock, either hauled abroad or in the UK, as 'live' on long journeys.
David is right when he draws attention to other animal welfare problems deserving of notice and action. I couldn't agree more and having also been involved in the world of dogs too, I'm sure Coleen will agree with me that the number of unwanted pets, abandoned and destroyed on a daily basis in the UK is appalling.
We live in a 'throw-away' world, many of us deeming it necessary to have a new car, TV, mobile phone, or even Kitchen fittings, etc., every two years or less! Our children must have the latest 'gear' and we must wear the latest fashion and all too often family pets are treated the same way and 'dumped' after a few months, in favour of the latest new popular breed.
We, of the older generation, are in part to blame. Having suffered the deprivations of war torn Europe, we have striven to improve standards of living and encouraged our children to do the same, rather than be content with their lot in life. In many ways that is not a bad thing but in others it has and does, cause enormous suffering. Not least of all in the exploitation of the labour force used to create, harvest and package the goods both at home and abroad.
We want the best quality goods, in international varieties, all the year round and as cheap as possible. If we cannot earn a decent living from traditional methods without exploiting others, be they human or animal, it is time to think again and perhaps the success of the former dairy farmer Hilary mentions, who now has only three cows and makes ice cream, is one of the alternatives.
There is one thing that's a certainty, if the demonstrators are successful in banning 'live' exports an alternative will be found. After all, 'necessity is the mother of invention!'
Which reminds me – my farming neighbour was talking about getting an ice-cream making machine......hmmmm... maybe in a few months time she might give me a job flogging the stuff to the tourists on the A1? I better go and have a chat with her!