Re: Waughtergate

Originally from: Bill
                        
Bobby Waugh may have been as guilty as sin but what I object to is him being made a scapegoat for the self-righteous to point fingers at.

There are a lot of people in this up to their necks. Early in the epidemic I suggested (on Farmgate) Bobby's pigs might have eaten infected lamb carcasses. I received a torrent of abuse and thought at the time I had touched a few raw nerves.

FMD had been around for a long time, since April 2000 at least. I have been asked where the evidence is, well if a proper investigation is started I will gladly tell you.
                        

Originally from: Joyce
                        
I am sure, absolutely sure, that ministry vets were on the look out for FMD at the beginning of February 2001. A goat that I bought on Feb 8th was unwell when she arrived here and the vet's reaction and questions greatly surprised me until FMD was announced, and then they made perfect sense. [This was denied when I asked outright] Joyce

Originally from: Farmtalking
                        
Hi Bill!

I rather think that if I'd been given a £1 everytime I've heard that someone had evidence of the source of FMD in 2000/2001 and would reveal it to a proper investigation/inquiry, Farmtalking wouldn't need funding and I might well be residing in the Bahamas!

I doubt I've heard it all but the fact is that 101 ideas, proposals, rumours abound but no one so far has come up with any concrete evidence.

Since Farmtalking started on 10th March last year it has endevoured to publish fact in an unbiased manner and will not publish rumour.

If you have such concrete evidence, for instance the numbers and animal species involved, the names, addresses, dates and times of all persons involved, who are preferably willing to make written statements to back up their stories, I would have thought Farmtalking is just the place to hold such a 'proper' investigation/inquiry. After all, these messages are read by many more people than just the members of the board who contribute them!
 

Originally from: Bill
                        
We will never know the source but wat can be proved by the exhumation of buried animals is FMD was around a long time before February 2001. Virions survive for many years in bone so all that is needed is a proper enquiry with full powers to go
a digging.
MAFF were looking for FMD for a long time but as I said positive results from blood can be difficult to obtain. Obviously Paul Kitching will say differently but I have given you details of how the tests are done so you can make up your own mind on that one.
                        

Originally from: and
                        

Originally from: Farmtalking
                        
From: ...

Originally from telephone calls I recieved and conversations I had, with vets and farmers during the epidemic, I know that there are no 'hard and fast' rules when it comes to the FMD virus and how it affects different animals, no matter how adamant that there are, some people may continue to be.

I suppose this should not come as a surprise to any of us as we are only too well aware that the common cold or flu virus affects human beings with differing severity. We have to ask why and certainly endevour to find out.

It is true to say that some sheep, cattle and pigs are extremely unwell and no doubt suffer tremendously with FMD.

It is because of the high infectivity of the virus and loss of production that it was/is considered to be a disease causing economic disaster to farmers and thus the economy, that a slaughter policy was introduced to the UK on the recommendation of established beef breeders in the early part of last century.

However, it is equally true to say that in many sheep and some cattle and pigs, FMD seems to affect them very little, if at all. There is no doubt that even the most diligent and experienced shepherd and or vet might not notice the symptoms in some sheep, while others might only appear to be a little off-colour, for instance, lying down and not eating or chewing the cud for a few hours. Ater a short while, certainly within 24–48 hours, the animals appear to recover and return to normal.

This latter description can also be applied to some cattle, and was described to me during the epidemic by a farmer who owned them and the MAFF vets attending the farm at the time.

Before you draw the conclusion that they were not suffering from FMD, let me tell you that they were blood tested and slaughtered and the results were positive!

In my opinion, a chance for research into why these animals were unwell and not seriously so for such a short time, has been missed and more importantly, the genetic pool they might have posessed, which gave them such resistance, has also been lost.

If it is possible that animals could be bred to resist the virus in this way there would be no need for either a slaughter policy or vaccination.

IMO we are far too qick to jump to conclusions and act according to habit or theories in many instances, instead of reconsidering the problem and seeking the truth. The possibility that nature itself, can evolve mechanisms capable of resisting infections that some are blessed with and others wish they had must be further researched.

We have only to look to the aids virus and parts of the USA and Africa where some people are proving resistant to HIV and we certainly need to find out why.

It is tragic that we rushed in with a slaughter policy and the illegal contiguous cull, failing to consider that we were destroying some of the crown jewels of British Agriculture. For instance the largest flock of pedigree Wensleydale sheep in the world, all Scrapie resistant and healthy, were slaughtered as contiguous. It probably goes without saying that the cattle with whom they were grazing were not and remained alive and well.

Originally from: Bill
                        
Historically FMD has rattled around in the sheep population largely un-noticed (as you say it is not difficult to go un-noticed) until it gets out into cattle or pigs.

An epidemic year in the sheep population can cause high numbers of casualty lambs and one way of disposing of carcasses of course is to feed them to pigs. Why there are epidemic years is a mystery but one possibility is an explosion in the tick population. (The tick's ability to harbour the disease is mentioned in the Northumberland Report)

An epidemic year could of course be caused by the importation of a reservoir of virus from abroad as was the case in 1967/68 when 770 carcasses of frozen lamb had been imported from establishment 1408 in Argentina. The carcasses were widely distributed and a number of outbreaks were suspected to originate from bones or cardboard packaging from that consignment.

In 1967 the first recorded outbreak of the epidemic was at Bryn Farm, Oswestry where the farmer had obtained lamb bones for his dogs. The bones were supplied by a butcher who had received lamb carcasses that were part of the consignment from establishment 1408. Ministry vets observed that bones were lying around in a yard to which the pigs had access.

(Meat does not normally transmit the disease because the virus is acid sensitive and killed by the acidity of dead meat.)
                        

Originally from: Joyce
                        

In my opinion, a chance for research into why these animals were >unwell and not seriously so for such a short time, has been >missed and more importantly, the genetic pool they might have >posessed, which gave them such resistance, has also been lost.

If it is possible that animals could be bred to resist the virus >in this way there would be no need for either a slaughter policy >or vaccination.

IMO we are far too qick to jump to conclusions and act >according to habit or theories in many instances, instead of >reconsidering the problem and seeking the truth. The possibility >that nature itself, can evolve mechanisms capable of resisting >infections that some are blessed with and others wish they had >must be further researched.

This is also why the 'scrapie scheme' is so very risky...further depleting the gene pool..."Lord...We know NOT what we do" Joyce