Re: NFU is still at it!
Originally from: Mary Critchley
Thanks Prof Robb
This is important. What do they take us for? (a ride)
Mary
Originally from: Prof. Fenton F Robb
Local NFU officer at Northumberland hot spot is still repeating the mantra "would the public buy the products from vaccinated animals?" Obviously NFU has not been in a hurry to tell its officials that this line is no longer a non-runner. No special labelling will be needed by the Food Standards Authority but there was more than a hint of a threat that NFU would insist on special labelling "for the enlightenment of customers".
Originally from: Prof. Fenton F Robb
Yes Susan – it is even worse than that this time –
Ben Gill sought an assurance from Government that, if retailers refused to sell products from fmd-vaccinated animals, Government would buy up the rejected products! The actual words are to be found in the NFU web page17th April Press Release listing the questions Ben Gill put to Government and the actual words are :-
"Will food processors and retailers buy product from vaccinated animals, now and in the future, and if the products aren't marketable will the Government act as a purchaser?
As to special labelling – the Food Standards Agency is absolutely clear – and so is the national Consumers Council – at present animals can be vaccinated with up to 33 things, fmd vaccination is absolutely harmless. Neither organisation wants special labels on products. Neither do the supermarkets nor the major producers (milk products etc) as I was told by Kevin Hawkins Chairman of British Retail Consortium (Food Group) and Communications Director of Safeway.
Hope this is helpful.
—Fenton F Robb (Prof)
Originally from: Susan Staunton
Now I am just throwing this idea into the arena for consideration, it is not my opinion. Perhaps they are suggesting this as they are concerned that the consumer will condemn all British meat and dairy produce as "tarred with the same brush", ie all from vaccinated animals and will boycott it all accordingly. At the moment the vast majority of British produce is still mercifully completely free of Foot and Mouth and so in effect the NFU is performing its duty in protecting the interests of British farming as a whole rather than sacrificing it. I also seem to recall that the NFU was trying to obtain assurances from the Government the last time vaccination was on the agenda that farmers with vaccinated animals would receive compensation for losses as a result of public resistance to their product so perhaps this lends greater credence to this theory than less?
Before anyone reminds me, yes I know that we are eating vaccinated meat now, (well we havent been technically since I understood meat imported to the EU thus far from FMD countries – prior to the Argentinian situation – was nominally from FMD free zones within those countries, though like you I question and seriously doubt how possible it is that those zones havent become rather "blurred" around the edges) but that is a very different matter from knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are
Originally from: Susan Staunton
Thank you for that Professor Robb. Personally I find it ludicrous that we should be worried about vaccination for FMD any more than we should for the numerous other vaccines which are permissable, but as we all know public perception is key and since I have had guests from the US here who are clearly refusing to eat meat of any kind whilst on their stay in Britain (I run a B&B as most of the others on the group know now) and some even asked us if we had to burn humans if they got FMD (I kid you not!) it is clearly impossible to underestimate human intelligence levels on emotive matters such as this, particularly when there is still such a climate of misinformation.
Originally from: Val Collinson
Sue
This is absolutely right! If it is such a foregone conclusion that vaccinated animals will not be subjected to discrimination, ie there will not be a 2-tier market for either food or livestock then the government has nothing to lose by offering compensation in that 'unlikely' event. If the NFU did not address this possibility I would not consider that they were representing me properly. Personally I would not want my animals vaccinated unless every animal in the country was vaccinated also.
If vaccination puts anyone at a commercial disadvantage, then all the science in the world is irrelevant.
Val C
Originally from: coleen
Sticking my neck out here, but here goes.
I think it is wrong to vaccinate in any one particular area – vaccination when it eventually arrives( sooner than later I hope) should be done throughout the whole of the Country.
It would be very easy to go in and vaccinate Northumbria – or the pigs in North Yorkshire – and have ALL the assurances under the sun that buyers etc etc will not discriminate against that meat. Is any farmer seriously going to fall for that. They could be alienated left right and centre – left with worthless stock on their hands, with NO compensation. If there is a supply of unvaccinated meat in the UK this to my mind is the source that the buyers will go for, same with the milk. I wonder what the reaction from the farming community as a whole would be if mass vaccination was on the cards. What would the farmers in the South who have remained (FMD free so far ) reactions be. Lets not forget this does effect them in the long run, I wonder if they will sit back and accept it – or will we see them stand out against it – what will the NFUs advise be then – I wonder. We do only seem to talking in terms of the North regarding vaccination – surely to make it carry any credibility that stock will not be discriminated against it has to be done nationally. Or more farmers will in effect loose their living through what was originally meant to save them and their animals.
Coleen
Originally from: Joyce
Originally from: Molly Maxwell
Let's just hope that by vaccinating in certain areas does not mean they are going to cull the stock afterwards – anything's possible with this bloody government.
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Originally from: "Val Collinson" <...> Reply-To: ...
Originally from: Val Collinson
Quite so, and could you ever believe assurances to the contrary from them? The Dutch government changed their mind on this one, retrospectively, so I believe.
Val C
Originally from: Susan Staunton
No Joyce, in my experience Americans dont do facetious, I think that's rather more a British
speciality. In their defence though I think they meant burning
humans after they had died from FMD as opposed to killing them as a precautionary measure!
Originally from: Prof. Fenton F Robb
Val – Sue Help please –
As a matter of fact, at present, do buyers actually discriminate between animals that have had, or have not had, any of the current vaccination regimes?
The supermarkets tell me they do not make any such distinction. They say they will buy anything that is OK by the Food Standards Agency – like the 33 treatments in use at present –
but your actual experiences would influence my opinion more than hypotheticals
. —Fenton F Robb (Prof)
Originally from: Val Collinson
Prof
Yes, I think they do in some cases, such as Johne's disease, for example, and maybe leptospirosis. It may be on the basis that there's no smoke without fire, or it may just be a case of 'why buy from a farm which has obviously had a problem when another, which has not, is available?' However, I think that FMD is different. It seems to me that the scientific evidence as to whether or not virus could be present in vaccinated herds (flocks) is equivocal, in that not all the experts agree on this. I don't think that there is any question that vaccinated herds or flocks would be subject to all manner of restrictions for an indefinite period of time and therefore potential purchasers would avoid them for this reason. If, however, vaccination were made compulsory for all susceptible animals in the Country, this would not arise.
There is already a great deal of hysteria about the disease, with people from uninfected areas putting extreme pressure on their neighbours not to go anywhere near 'infected' areas. I think this attitude might well extend to vaccinated vs non-vaccinated areas.
Val C
Originally from: Prof. Fenton F Robb
Joyce
N.B. Hitler didn't wait for people to catch anything before he stuffed them into gas chambers.
—Fenton F Robb (Prof)
Originally from: Prof. Fenton F Robb
Val – thank you – that's interesting. Whatever the ultimate outcome, we must never treat our flocks and herds like this ever again.
Prof.