Jiglu: Farmtalking: Discussion: RE: BVA

Originally from: Pat Gardiner

Hi Coleen

Yes, I experienced them first hand and simply could not believe what they were capable of. It was simply unbelievable. To be honest I would not believe people like poor Didi, but for what I witnessed here.

HOWEVER, they attacked the wrong man's wife in her own home. I had an exciting but respectable business life before retirement in my forties, as you know. Disabled a little and, not being a farmer and not dependant on it for a living, there is little they can do to silence me. I also have a track record in many relevant fields – as you will all see. Crucially that includes giving evidence to Select Committees. I know the rules.

I'm well capable of giving the veterinary establishment a very bad time indeed and fully intend to do so, until the main culprits are before a Court

I have absolutely everything in writing – and it is all abroad in the hands of professional fraud investigators from the European Commission.

I was absolutely delighted with the kindness and courtesy of the EC investigators. My wife and I were invited, in secret, to a country hotel. Real cloak and dagger stuff. I think they thought we might be crazy and they allowed half an hour for the meeting. We were there for two hours, the meeting constantly extended at their request. Since I have provided them with well over 100 documents out of the 3,000 I have collected. It is all there, all the posts to this and other newsgroups...and much else.

I'm not breaching any confidence here. I told them that we would not be bound by any confidentiality. Whilst they did not tell me, it was obvious that they were off to raid a Maff-Defra office.

This financial investigatory route all takes time, it is a long slow route, but it is the one that will sort them all out in the end.

They got Al Capone on tax fraud, don't forget. I know where all the bodies are buried and intend to whistle-blow until reform is assured.

Rest easy, some of us are still prepared to put everything on the line for decency and integrity.

They trod England into the mud. They will pay dearly for their arrogance.

Pat G

-----Original Message-----
From: ...
Originally from: Coleen Taylor [...] Sent: 17 January 2004 16:42
To: ...
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] BVA
Hi Pat
I hope you are correct in what you write. The thought of either of these bodies being given more power in view of what happened during fmd is staggeringly frightening.
It is not just in the livestock World that corruption and cheating are rampant it is right across the board. That's what scares me, if these bodies are given more power – then what? We have witnessed what they are capable of Pat – and what they can get away with.
Has anyone ever tried explaining (to outsiders) what the treatment from these two organisations was like during fmd . If I am honest, had I not seen it first hand myself, I to would doubt the truth, as many do when you try to enlighten them.
The mere fact that DEFRA are considering along the lines of appointing them as overseer's regarding any new legislation speaks volumes – does it not?
Coleen
----- Original Message -----
From: ...
Originally from: <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] BVA
Hi Coleen
I don't understand either.
But this is very serious, much more serious than I thought when it all started.
But the RSPCA and the Veterinary profession cannot possibly survive, the scandals that are about to break, unreformed. In fact, I would be very surprised if the RSCPA survives at all.
Lots of people have talked to me in confidence, including some vets.
It is a nightmare, BUT they can't go on for ever behaving like this. They have blood on their hands. They have lied and cheated their way though Britain. Innocent people have really suffered.
There will come a time very soon when people will be ashamed to admit that they are a British veterinarian.
Hiding up the PMWS epidemic in the pig factory farms might have worked for four years, but it cannot go on for ever. Once they admit it, people will suddenly realise that this predates CSFD and FMD, they will recall all the complaints from the animal rights people and wonder why the RSPCS did not step in and why Maff-Defra did nothing. Then the full horrifying story will hit the media. The vets are all in denial, that can't last in a world where sick pigs are recognised as a risk to human health too.
Take heart. So long as there are enough of us to complain...publicly too.
Regards
Pat Gardiner
Author wrote:
Hi Pat
I cannot understand why a professional body can allow it's self to get
in such a mess, also that they have NO say as a independent body, or
they are choosing not to voice it! Is it safety in numbers? I was
speaking to (cannot name them as what she told me was 'off the
record'. The new animal welfare act that DEFRA are putting together
will –
1, probably be overseen by the RSPCA ( will not write what my comment
to that was)! 2, that the person who is responsible for trying to
implement this Bill Ben Bradshaw, has suggested that in order to help
Councils and others when they go to inspect and license places, that a
qualified person in that field – yes a Vet more then likely – should
accompany them. Of course this Act stretches right across the animal
World, but none of this fills me with confidence. We seem to be going
round in circles and getting nowhere fast. Coleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Gardiner" <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: [farmtalking] BVA
Coleen
You should not be too surprised. The BVA is a total shambles. I'm just
amazed at the spinelessness of the average vet in putting up with this.
Just look at this. Sorry about the language, ut if that is the standard of
conduct at the top of theior profession, what can I say.
...me who led a sheltered life on the dockside.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/08/31/nvet31.xml&s
Sheet=/news/2002/08/31/ixhome.html
Senior vets voice alarm at bullying allegations
Sixteen former presidents of the British Veterinary Association have
voiced
concern about trouble at the top of the organisation after allegations
of harassment, staff intimidation, bullying and possible financial
mismanagement at its London headquarters. In a letter in the
Veterinary Record, the BVA's official publication, the past
presidents, whose tenures date from the Fifties to the Nineties, say
a
lack of transparency over the findings of two independent inquiries
into
the
allegations is tearing the profession apart and damaging its
reputation. One former president said yesterday that the crisis at the
BVA's headquarters in Marylebone, London, was "turning us into a
laughing stock
in
the eyes of the Government and the public".
Another past president of the association and the Royal College of
Veterinary Surgeons, now retired from practice, said the BVA was in
"fucking
chaos". He added: "This is creating a loss of public confidence in the
BVA and the profession, which is even worse." The turmoil comes as
outsiders are questioning the association's role, particularly after
foot and mouth. While members were under severe
pressure
at the height of the outbreak, their representative body was accused
of failing to take a decisive stand on key issues such as vaccination.
Members have been frustrated by the association's failure to sort out
conflicting advice on the 20-day standstill rule imposed on livestock
farmers after foot and mouth. After concerns over staff turnover at
the headquarters, the BVA Council's Internal Audit Group set up an
internal investigation, which prompted an independent inquiry last
year at £1,000 a day. The association's executive refused to disclose
the contents of the internal report to its council,
even
in secret. It cited legal advice that it said could lead to the
association
being brought before an industrial tribunal.
The independent report detailed concerns about the management style of
James
Baird, the association's chief executive, and Ailsa Edwards, the
assistant chief executive. The Report to the Executive Committee of
the British Veterinary
Association
regarding concerns held by current and past staff regarding their
employment
lists a catalogue of problems, including "low morale and an atmosphere
of distrust, secrecy and fear". Andrew Scott, president of the
association, said lawyers had advised him
not
to comment on the report's contents.
The independent report was "being actioned". He said: "In view of the
necessity for the process to be conducted fairly I am not in the
position
to
say any more."
Mr Baird was unavailable and Mrs Edwards declined to comment. Regards
Pat Gardiner
-----Original Message-----
From: Coleen Taylor [...]
Sent: 17 January 2004 10:55
To: ...
Subject: [farmtalking] BVA
Hi
Off the topic of farming – but even so, it did come as a surprise to me,
and
makes you ask yourself is NO one body, independent anymore. They ALL
scratch each others back, if this goes on in the domestic animal
section –
then who's bed are they sharing in the livestock world.
I wrote to BVA on Friday relating to puppy farming. I asked for their
views
on several aspects, but mainly on the welfare side.
They wrote back saying 'they could not comment as an individual
organisation
(why not) but pointed me in the direction of the Dog Legislation
Advisory Group of which the BVA is a member – the address – the kennel
club. Personally I find this worrying, as I no not see the kennel
club and the BVA as natural partners (well I didn't).. Coleen
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