----- Original Message -----
From: ...

Originally from: <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [farmtalking] BVA

Hi Coleen

I don't understand either.

But this is very serious, much more serious than I thought when it all started.

But the RSPCA and the Veterinary profession cannot possibly survive, the scandals that are about to break, unreformed. In fact, I would be very surprised if the RSCPA survives at all.

Lots of people have talked to me in confidence, including some vets.

It is a nightmare, BUT they can't go on for ever behaving like this. They have blood on their hands. They have lied and cheated their way though Britain. Innocent people have really suffered.

There will come a time very soon when people will be ashamed to admit that they are a British veterinarian.

Hiding up the PMWS epidemic in the pig factory farms might have worked for four years, but it cannot go on for ever. Once they admit it, people will suddenly realise that this predates CSFD and FMD, they will recall all the complaints from the animal rights people and wonder why the RSPCS did not step in and why Maff-Defra did nothing. Then the full horrifying story will hit the media. The vets are all in denial, that can't last in a world where sick pigs are recognised as a risk to human health too.

Take heart. So long as there are enough of us to complain...publicly too.

Regards
Pat Gardiner

Author wrote:
Hi Pat
I cannot understand why a professional body can allow it's self to get in
such a mess, also that they have NO say as a independent body, or they are
choosing not to voice it! Is it safety in numbers?
I was speaking to (cannot name them as what she told me was 'off the
record'. The new animal welfare act that DEFRA are putting together

will –

1, probably be overseen by the RSPCA ( will not write what my comment to
that was)! 2, that the person who is responsible for trying to implement
this Bill Ben Bradshaw, has suggested that in order to help Councils and
others when they go to inspect and license places, that a qualified person
in that field – yes a Vet more then likely – should accompany them. Of
course this Act stretches right across the animal World, but none of this
fills me with confidence. We seem to be going round in circles and getting
nowhere fast.
Coleen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Gardiner" <...>
To: <...>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: [farmtalking] BVA
Coleen
You should not be too surprised. The BVA is a total shambles. I'm just
amazed at the spinelessness of the average vet in putting up with this.
Just look at this. Sorry about the language, ut if that is the standard of
conduct at the top of theior profession, what can I say.
...me who led a sheltered life on the dockside.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/08/31/nvet31.xml&s

Sheet=/news/2002/08/31/ixhome.html
Senior vets voice alarm at bullying allegations
Sixteen former presidents of the British Veterinary Association have

voiced

concern about trouble at the top of the organisation after allegations of
harassment, staff intimidation, bullying and possible financial
mismanagement at its London headquarters.
In a letter in the Veterinary Record, the BVA's official publication, the
past presidents, whose tenures date from the Fifties to the Nineties, say

a

lack of transparency over the findings of two independent inquiries into

the

allegations is tearing the profession apart and damaging its reputation.
One former president said yesterday that the crisis at the BVA's
headquarters in Marylebone, London, was "turning us into a laughing stock

in

the eyes of the Government and the public".
Another past president of the association and the Royal College of
Veterinary Surgeons, now retired from practice, said the BVA was in

"fucking

chaos". He added: "This is creating a loss of public confidence in the BVA
and the profession, which is even worse."
The turmoil comes as outsiders are questioning the association's role,
particularly after foot and mouth. While members were under severe

pressure

at the height of the outbreak, their representative body was accused of
failing to take a decisive stand on key issues such as vaccination.
Members have been frustrated by the association's failure to sort out
conflicting advice on the 20-day standstill rule imposed on livestock
farmers after foot and mouth.
After concerns over staff turnover at the headquarters, the BVA Council's
Internal Audit Group set up an internal investigation, which prompted an
independent inquiry last year at £1,000 a day. The association's executive
refused to disclose the contents of the internal report to its council,

even

in secret. It cited legal advice that it said could lead to the

association

being brought before an industrial tribunal.
The independent report detailed concerns about the management style of

James

Baird, the association's chief executive, and Ailsa Edwards, the assistant
chief executive.
The Report to the Executive Committee of the British Veterinary

Association

regarding concerns held by current and past staff regarding their

employment

lists a catalogue of problems, including "low morale and an atmosphere of
distrust, secrecy and fear".
Andrew Scott, president of the association, said lawyers had advised him

not

to comment on the report's contents.
The independent report was "being actioned". He said: "In view of the
necessity for the process to be conducted fairly I am not in the position

to

say any more."
Mr Baird was unavailable and Mrs Edwards declined to comment.
Regards
Pat Gardiner
-----Original Message-----
From: Coleen Taylor [...]
Sent: 17 January 2004 10:55
To: ...
Subject: [farmtalking] BVA
Hi
Off the topic of farming – but even so, it did come as a surprise to me,

and

makes you ask yourself is NO one body, independent anymore. They ALL
scratch each others back, if this goes on in the domestic animal

section –

then who's bed are they sharing in the livestock world.
I wrote to BVA on Friday relating to puppy farming. I asked for their

views

on several aspects, but mainly on the welfare side.
They wrote back saying 'they could not comment as an individual

organisation

(why not) but pointed me in the direction of the Dog Legislation Advisory
Group of which the BVA is a member – the address – the kennel club.
Personally I find this worrying, as I no not see the kennel club and the
BVA as natural partners (well I didn't)..
Coleen
--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote visit
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking
To leave the group, email: ...

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.561 / Virus Database: 353 – Release Date: 13/01/2004
--
If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking
To leave the group, email: ...

—If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote
visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/farmtalking

To leave the group, email: ...